Sightings and eye witnesses claim the grim Sleeper is:
Age range in 2008 is approx 45 – 55 (in 1988 a confirmed survivor stated his age as “30ish”). The youngest this killer could be now is around 41 assuming he was as young as 18 when the killings began.
Possibly drives an orange or rust colored FORD PINTO similar to the one shown below.
Titan FIE .25-caliber semi-automatic pistol.
The Killer does not seem to be attempting to conceal his activities. The gun is a .25 caliber hand gun and it has been used in 10 out of 12 confirmed attacks and murders.
He picks up victims either forcibly or willingly (in the case of prostitutes). He rapes/sexually assaults his victims (male victim excluded) and usually shoots to the chest (male victim was shot in head). Two victims were strangled with no gun involved.
Survivor claims her attacker took Polaroid photographs as he sexually assaulted her.
Victims are then dumped on the South side of Los Angeles in close proximity to each other.
Predominantly the victim’s bodies are partially concealed under existing rubbish or inside trash bins and the dump grounds are generally alley ways.
|1)||yes three times in chest||yes||alley under carpet||yes|
|2)||yes twice to chest||yes||alley wrapped in blanket under mattress||u/k|
|3)||yes once to head||no||out in the open||no|
|4)||yes once to chest||yes||alley covered by bag||yes|
|5)||yes once to chest +||yes||alley in trash bin||no|
|6)||yes once to chest||yes||alley||yes|
|7)||yes twice to chest||yes||alley under mattress. Napkin on face with “AIDS” written||yes|
|8 )||yes twice to chest||yes||alley, nude, under mattress||no|
|Survivor||yes once in chest||yes||u/k||u/k|
|9)||no – COD strangulation||yes||alley||no|
|10)||no – COD strangulation||yes||alley||u/k|
|11)||yes once in back||yes||alley in garbage bag||u/k|
COD = cause of death
Kilcoyne said 9 of the 12 victims were linked by ballistics. Tactfully, that would include the sole survivor. 10 were shot. Likely the 10th, following the long hiatus, was shot from another gun. Deductions about the killer's unusual confidence in concealing a HOT piece of evidence for 13 years would now be a moot point. Hope that clarifies some.
This Guy has no right killing innocent people and after he`s done with them. throws their decaying bodies in local allies and intersection in Los Angeles.
I'm sorry for your loss, Naqueenaa, but I'm confused: who is Pertina? I don't see her name on the list of victims on this site. Please forgive me if I made an error. And yes, this case should have been solved ages ago. Let's hope the GS gets busted soon.
Hello, I am one of Pertina's first cousins. We miss her dearly and would like for this case to not be put to rest. I know with the new technology today, that there is a way to find her killer. Please someone with a conscious keep her case open and continue to look for her killer, there must be some evidence, somewhere to be found, it just takes a skilled forensics technician. Please, please, please. My aunt suffers every year around mothers day,and when she looks into the face of a child that no longer has a mother. She can not rest completely until justice is served. As a student in CRJ hopefully one day I can revisit the case if it has not been solved but I pray justice is served before then. For anyone who knows Pertina please pray for her mother especially that she remains strong. And for those who know's her sister, pray for her as well that she comes off the streets and gets some help. Cousin,you know who you are, we love you and want you to do better, your child misses you.
The Grim sleeper didn't kill because he had HIV. There is no way he could have survived being HIV positive during the 1980s let alone have enough strength to murder while having HIV. It is impossible to catch AIDS. HIV is the virus that causes AIDS. The Grim Sleeper killed Black women, because he hated them. Remember what he said to ‘Enietra’ Margette? "You Black women think you're all that". It's obvious that he was rejected by Black women on a regular basis. His motive of killing Black women was probably rejection. He felt like that they hated him, because he was considered a "nerd". Thomas Steele was probably a witness to the second murder, and he took him out.
Maybe the reason is because he is doing some other killings in another state, that gator allin dude, posted something on a site, that i was on to find out about the church,he posted some article link, killings in north carolina(?) some dude in a car picking women up,killing them, and there was survivor. said he was quiet,he wore glasses,and had a mustache,and then he demanded sex... could be him,could be someone else.
i belive the reason he strangled the 2 victims after the survivor is to make sure he killed them; when the survivor survived he got scared and moved away or joined the military; the reason he could have been gone is for desert storm and the reason he has stopped again is because he is in the middle east again.
Ian (comment #44): Enietra Margette (the survivor) said that TGS most definitely IS a Black man but some reports have mentioned that he (allegedly)has a Jamaican or Caribbean accent so he may or may not be African-American.
The reason he could be a former cop, former military man or spent anymore then a night in the county jail is because they would all have DNA on file and since DNA was found at the scene...
You all realize that the police are doing all of those things and more. This guy will get caught. And um, didn't anyone ever think that this "geeky" guy could very well be on this website snooping around? Also, I figure "The Grime Sleeper" must never have been in jail, a cop or in the military. Statistically speaking this is a little odd considering he is thought to be black. He either is probably not Black or a black man who may be living in a more upscale or at least unassuming neighborhood then South Central.
Pdr: We dont need to find THE car. We just need to find 1 MEMORY (Souvenir?) of the car. I agree totaly with what you wrote on 38 about AIDS
Radar also said that he could not stop, that the urge to do what he did was beyond his control. He called it the 'x' factor. Almost as if the need to act out in this way was hardwired into his brain. When his sexual fantasies became really strong, that is when he planned to kill again.
I was reading about the BTK killer (Wichita) recently, and the thing that struck me was that in some of the youtube videos, he looks and sounds like anybody else you might meet on any given day. I think we all expect a serial killer to be a raving lunatic, but they are married, have children, and hold down jobs -- at least some do. That is what is so astonishing. One homicide detective who had worked six serial killer cases wrote in his report that in childhood, many serial killers exhibited three 'predictors' of become a serial killer: bedwetting, starting fires, and torturing small animals. Ugh. He also said these mens' sexual fantasies were what drove them to kill. The more they can degrade the victim, the more exciting the sexual act. Radar got his biggest thrill watching the cord tighten around the necks of his victims, watching their terror, etc. Just really sick sick people.
I agree that he probably got rid of the car once he realized Margette was still alive. But would he have known she survived? I am sure he thought he was leaving her for dead when he drove off that night. Was that shooting in all the papers and on the news at that time? If not, he may not have known.
The most important details are the car’s lures: The survivor said “An orange Ford Pinto with a white racing stripe on the hood. The gear-shift handle was MEMORABLE, pimped out with a ping-pong-sized marble ball. The inside was all-white, with white diamond-patterned upholstery” For more detail of the gear-shift handle : www.wholesale-glass-dealer.com/products/GearShiftKnob/GearShiftKnob.htm - There were not many Ford Pinto with WHITE interior color. Do many of us know someone who had a car: a Ford + all white inside + gear-shift handle like marble ball? That would have been “ MEMORABLE” (She said). Someone must REMEMBER!
The victim may have told GS she had AIDS to try to dissuade him from raping her. Placing a napkin with AIDS written on it was his way of mocking her -- it was his final insult. He will have the last word, even if he has to kill to have it.
i would like to see this chart expanded to include a lot more detail on each victim. for example, would be helpful to have victim's name (instead of a number), and to list known addresses where they lived, where they were picked up and disposed of, including times of day/night, etc. (along with google map links). a column for details provided by other witnesses would be helpful. for example, I have read that three victims were seen getting into an orange Ford Pinto, but for the life of me it's hard to remember which three (Margette is obviously one, and I believe Mary Lowe was another, but I do not recall who the third one was). i realize you have only so much room on the page, but all the facts of each case in one place in chart form would be immensely helpful. i would be willing to help you with this if you need assistance.
GS is careless; he may even have taken one victim to his home and left her waiting in his car while he retrieved his gun. The sole survivor stated that he stopped at a 'mustard colored' house. After she reported this crime, did the LAPD drive around with her to look for his house? Probably not that many were painted mustard. She certainly knew where she was picked up and shoved/dropped out/off, so those would have been good starting points for the search. Probably not much point in doing this now, as the house will have been painted several times over. The only way it would make sense is if she remembers something timeless and distinctive about his house or neighborhood.
strangulation could be connected to his age. He is old and cannot be any longer sexual ready in the given momente. strangulation might makes him exited for it takes time that the victime dies. shooting in the chest is shooting into feminity. Breasts atracts men to women. The child died in the place of somebody in the family. He made the mistake. shooting into the back was most likely at the woman with smallest breasts. The van is huge and may hint family or handicapped person for which he has to care. I am not atracted to the reward. I would without doubts give all that to Red Cross if I find or help to move that beast from the streets. Might he sales pictures to people who like extreme sex. I read before long time there are such. Regards!
Just a quick theory on the clothed vs. unclothed of one of the victims. The youngest victim was 14. She, according to AMV (which I tend to believe), was a runaway and prostitute. She looked older than she was, but she was still 14. Perhaps the killer was "tricked" by her and outraged, so, to expose her ruse, he left her completely naked. Pure speculation. Secondarily, perhaps he knew the girl...or figured out who she was. Perhaps she was the child of one of his 1988 victims. I'm sure that is incorrect since there was no mention of a physical link between any of the victims, but...just the fact that she was 14 and he'd not been around for 13 years...mental leap, yes, but, hey...that's what we do here, right?
am still navigating my way round this site and found forums I didn't know about so have updated myself that some of the victims were found nude. However it is strange that while the killings are similar in the sense of the dumping grounds (sorry to sound crude)some are found nude and some were fully clothed - possibly the clothes that some of the girls were wearing were more complicated than others, but I don't know - it just seems weird. Normally victims of vicious attacks like these would not be found fully clothed.
AFTER GIVING THIS CASE MUCH THOUGHT AND SKIMMING THROUGH ALL THE FACTS/SPECULATIONS/EVIDENCE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC, I HAVE CAME TO THE SOLID CONCLUSION THAT THIS GUY WILL NOT GET CAUGHT UNLESS HE GETS ARRESTED FOR SOME RANDOM REASON (HE’S NEVER BEEN ARRESTED). PEOPLE HAVE MENTIONED THAT THE G.S. INVESTIGATION WAS BOTCHED DUE TO THE COPS. I BELIEVE THE INVESTIGATION WAS BOTCHED BY THE MEDIA. THIS IS ON A BILLBOARD IN HIS OLD NEIGHBORHOOD. AFTER THE 1988 SURVIVING VICTIM HE FLED THE AREA. 2001-02 HE (MIGHT) HAVE INHERITED PROPERTY BRINGING HIM BACK INTO HIS OLD NEIGHBORHOOD. LOOK FOR INHERITED PROPERTY IN A 5 MILE RADIUS FROM THE CHURCH WHERE THE VAN WAS FOUND AND CROSS REFERENCE ANY NEW OWNERS WITH THE CLOSEST HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATING CLASS 1968-79 (or just have the surviving victim skim through them. from freshmans to seniors in all the books). FROM 2002 HE CHOSE 2 WEAKER VICTIMS AND STRANGLED THEM. YET 2007 HE SOMEHOW GETS THE .25 BACK??? MAYBE HE STASHED IT??? THIS GUY IS A GOODY GOODY WITH A TICKING TIME BOMB ATTITUDE AND WILL TRY IT AGAIN IF A WOMAN PISSES HIM OFF.
Absolutely agree with you on the Church Gary. More investigation should've been made there - who knows, maybe there wouldn't be a need for this site. Another thought - or query really. The victims were shot and sexually assaulted - do we know if this was in that order? Also it appears that the victims were found fully clothed (as seen in photo of one of the victims). Did he dress them before dumping their bodies - which leads to an interesting theory as to why would he cover their modesty when he was either going to kill them anyway or they were dead already.
Melanie in comment # 29: I agree, Melanie. The "AIDS" note may have just been trash near / around the dump site that the killer used to place on the victim's face. Still, collecting it as potential evidence helps because if they catch GS, his writing MIGHT match that napkin note. On "poor police procedures," that topic has been raised before. But I don't agree. There were hundreds and hundreds of murders around LA in those years & linking them together prior to technology wasn't easy to do. The murders weren't linked until there were enough of them that the MO & crime characteristics were more obvious. The one screw up that I do see is that the LAPD did NOT, apparently, interview every person in the "Church" that owned the van. Every member should have been interviewed AND photographed so that future witnesses could look at those photographs. We don't know if the 911 voice recording was ever played for the surviving witness. If it wasn't, that was an error, also. But overall, I don't agree that the police "botched" the investigation. Once it became known by them that the cases were linked, they formed a specific squad to pursue the GS........ only to be exposed by some self serving, ego centric newspaper reporter ..... who essentially warned the killer of all that was happening regarding the crimes.
The note that was found on Lachrica Jefferson just doesn't seem to match. How do the police know that he wrote this. It could've been just a napkin thrown out with normal rubbish and in his haste to cover her body with whatever was around this was amongst it. Serial killers who leave notes tend to leave them on most of their victims. The GS has killed 11 women and there is only one note left. It just doesn't add up. This killer is not intelligent or above normal IQ. It appears that he is because he has not been caught, but this is all due to the poor police procedures in the 80's.
Live interview with JACKIE http://images.google.co.za/imgres?imgurl=http://media.amw.com/multimedia/fileRepository/db/458/604/face_male1_Large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=60381.&usg=__R9UDnMBzTUZl9oy53lV_RsU6pnQ=&h=150&w=120&sz=4&hl=en&start=175&um=1&tbnid=eEGv8w-nqlxzSM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=77&prev=/images?q=grim+sleeper&ndsp=20&hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&sa=N&start=160&um=1
PJ on Comment # 18: The sole survivor said he looked like the average guy. So his facial appearance must be normal and not disfigured somehow. She said he & she also threw some verbal banter back & forth before she got into the car. So he seems emotionally strong enough to interact with a female who was not under his control. As to choosing prostitutes, I'd bet that the primary reason is that the girls were easy targets because they'd get into his car where most women won't. On the other hand, Ted Bundy (executed serial killer) targeted non-prostitutes. I'm not sure if he killed prostitutes as well, but I recall he would lure the victims toward his car & physically overwhelm them as they were off guard. I think he also entered a building in one of his attacks & killed females within the building.
He took a 13-year break between 1988 and 2002 because he was considering retiring under the Ricky Ross alibi. He switched to strangulation in 2002 because he wanted to preserve the Ross alibi and did not want the gun to link him back to his previous crimes. He chose as his first new victim a fourteen year old girl to experiment safely on the process of strangulation. Once he was confident in his ability to strangle he chose an older, 35-year old woman. However, once DNA linked him back to the 80's murders, he realized the Ross alibi had been shattered and went back to killing with the original weapon.
I think it's hilarious all the amateur profilers out there. Too many movies and tv shows make people think they know what they are talking about. What stands out to me, as a non-profiler, is a couple of things. First, remember that he was driving a pinto in the 1980's. I find it very hard to believe that car still exists, just because of the vagaries of time. Who is still driving their car from the 80's? And even if he was driving a pinto (orange no less) now, he would hardly be inconspicuouc. Also, there were no cell phones. I looked at photographs (not knowing the neighborhood) and it does not appear to be pay phones all over the place, but residential neighborhoods. Finally, the survivor said she was shot first and then raped. I don't know how this plays into anything, but it certainly contradicts some of the theories bandied about here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grim_Sleeper Arrest: ""On July 7, 2010, a suspect, Lonnie David Franklin Jr., 57, was arrested." 1.) I profiled him as : 'Most serial killers kill within their own race and I believe he is now in his late 50’s.' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ""On July 7, 2010, the Los Angeles Times reported that an arrest had been made. District Attorney Steve Cooley identified the suspect as 57-year-old Lonnie David Franklin Jr., a mechanic who worked between 1981 and 1989 for the City of Los Angeles in the sanitation department and briefly for the police department. The arrest of Franklin reportedly was due, at least in part, to the use of familial DNA analysis."" 2.) I profiled him as: 'To me he may work for the a garbage or refuse company driving a trash truck, which frequently drives through alleys to empty dump bins.' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ""Police had been unable to find an exact match between DNA found at the crime scenes associated with the Grim Sleeper and any of the profiles in California's DNA profile database. Thus, police searched the database to try to find stored profiles that demonstrated sufficient similarity to the profile from the crime-scene evidence to allow police to infer a familial relationship between the person who left the DNA at the crime scenes and the similar profile stored in the database."" ""Police eventually located similar DNA belonging to Franklin's son, Christopher, who had been convicted of a felony weapons charge."" 3.) I profiled him as: 'He does not have any concerns about leaving his DNA behind.....He probably has grown up children in their 20’s or 30’s....' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @BillMill - Amateurs do it best.
pj, I think you have a point. In the description the survivor gave to LA Weekly and the police, she said he had pockmarked skin. Look it up. He likely was not a good-looking man unless he covered it up. Or they are two different murderers. I'd be willing to bet it's one killer, but he's got a lot of charm and very literally "lures" his victims in. That may be why he chooses prostitutes and maybe even why he thought that the survivor was a prostitute, she was willing to get in a car with him.
I think this guy was heavily using crack cocaine when it was first introduced to the L.A. area in the 80's. He would get high and drive around in his orange Pinto (as funny as that sounds) and just try to pick up any woman off the street (prostitute or not). He would then pull out his pistol and the fear factor of a gun in your face will make you do almost anything to get it out of your face. His theory after raping them is simple, shot the witness so you don't get caught. Why leave a live witness? When he did leave a live witness he decided to lay low, FOR 13 YEARS???? I need more information on alot of these loose descriptions of each victim. Does anyone know where to find more DETAILED info on these cases?
The one male victim's head shot could have something to explain. It would seem odd that he was the only person shot like this. Maybe it was an execution style shot. Maybe the man had some information that could lead police to the killer. Were any background interrogations done with his family? Maybe he told one of them something before he died.
from my investigation I see that antivirals were not out until 1996, and that the life span for an HIV infected person was 10 years untreated. So….I really have a hard time believing the guy is HIV positive for his reason for killing prostitutes….I think he would have been dead by the time antivirals hit the market, or too far gone for them to do anything for him at that time.
To NOMAD: a possibility you did not entertain as to why choosing prostitutes is maybe this person is not confident enough, or atleast successful in picking up a stranger elsewhere that is not a prostitute. ??? The guy could be disfugured, or just very low self-esteem and not confident at all to go after a normal girl. Just a thought
Annee, a few months "studying True Crime/Serial Killers" may not be enough to profile this guy...unless you were being sarcastic…either way you sound believable ? . Statistically most killers that go after prostitute do not do it "to clean up the streets" but rather because they are aroused by them and then sickened by their arousal...so they kill because someone made them feel that being aroused is evil or wrong (I agree it was most likely an abusive parent-figure in his childhood) The second reason is, as you said, they are not missed…and one more dead whore doesn’t bother society much even after they are found dead (we forget they are someone’s mother, sister, daughter, wife). I would imagine he used a “toss-a-phone” call to make the 911 call. Anyway...I hope if they find him...you can say "I told ya so"....good luck :)
Hello Nomad, I guess my profiling was dead on!! Not bad for an amatuer profiler. I'm still doing criminal profiling and I have successfully assisted solving numerous murder cases. I guess PsyOps helps out a bit. **Yawning** "I told ya so!" Hope all is well with you. Cheers! Annee Albritton ;-)
Claire- I don't think the NM murders are connected. The (2 that I know of thus far) identified remains from NM went missing after he started up again. The gap was from 1988-2002. The two women they identified were reported missing in '04. Plus, they were of hispanic ancestry. All of his previous victims (including the male) were black. Plus, he dumped his victim in the streets or alleys. The NM victims were at least hidden well enough that they were just found. Doesn't sound like the same guy to me.
is this serial killer at all possible linked to the 13 womens bodies found in new mexico a week or so ago? maybe he was " sleeping" because he was actually in new mexico for a long period of time.
This man would be considered a organized and dis-organized serial killer. He does not have any concerns about leaving his DNA behind, yet he has a pattern of leaving the bodies in alleys. I believe in the beginning of his killings, he was still experimenting with his techniques. The male victim may have been a possible witness. The current killings seem to be also changing, as if he is still finding his style or method of killing. Serial killers always choose prostitutes because nobody notices if they go missing and the area of luring his victims is easier for him if it is poverty stricten. Does he kill during the night or day? He wears a suit in order to appear to have money to ensure business with the prostitutes. Most serial killers kill within their own race and I believe he is now in his late 50's. This man more than likely has been married twice hence the long break between the murders. He probably has grown up children in their 20's or 30's and is religious. He believes he is doing the world a favor by cleaning up the streets by choosing female prostitutes. The killer more than likely had an overbearing mother and an extremely abusive father. The killer lives in the city limits and is very familiar with the alley locations. To me he may work for the a garbage or refuse company driving a trash truck, which frequently drives through alleys to empty dump bins. But what really puzzles me is if he thinks the female victims are spreading AIDS or disease, then why does he not wear a condom to protect his health? Does his DNA show symptoms of any STD's? The key here is the lack of his own sexual health. Did the victime with the napkin on her face actually have AIDS? If so, how did he know, unless he is a doctor at a free clinic in the city limit. If the killer is as methodical as reported, he must lure the women into his vehicle, then drive to a dark alley to act upon his sexual kill and then just dumps the bodies and drives away like nothing ever happened. I believe this serial killer will get caught very soon because he is getting older and is more than likely getting burnt out. We need to be vigilant and patrol the streets near the various scenes of crimes as undercover citizens. He is bound to mess up and is ready to be caught. I have been studying True Crime/Serial Killers for the last few months and can profile. I believe that the killer keeps up to date on any information released about his killings. He is computer saavy and probably likes to read about his murders. But what he is not aware of is that he is a diseased man himself. He is filled with filth and un-godliness. He is a hypocrit and ignorant. We will find this diseased sickened man and bring justice to the ladies who were wrongly murdered. Please feel free to discuss with me any topics that I mentioned. Oh by the way, the 911 call, did the police locate the phone number that was used. If so, was it a phone booth? Did they lift any prints off the phone booth and compare the prints to any matching prints with the DOJ?
Did the police check all of the used car dealerships in the LA area within the year the surviving victim was attacked? I'm not sure he'd be stupid enough to go trade the car in, but all cars leave a paper trail unless it was just disposed of or is still sitting in a garage somewhere. They could also put a bulletin out for anyone who bought exactly one of those cars sometime after the attack and see if they remember who they bought it from and where they went to make the money exchange. Usually people selling a car themselves just put it in the yard with a for sale sign on it.
What about the "taking of pictures?" Is that one of his MO's? I believe the surviving victim said he took pictures of her.
The male victim may have been his friend and found out he killed someone or he was a killer........was the male victims family re-contacted as to if he had a friend with a car like that or his other friends re-interviewed since the survior was was several years after the male victim was murdered............hey if anyone sees a black guy driving a orange Pinto get the License number for GOD's sake...........he may have been the killer............I don't see black guys or any guys for that matter driving orange pintos...................I think all the families/close friends of the victims killed prior to the survior should be re-interviewed......may know a little something bout the guy and the vehicle........it's worth a try
...There would be A LOT of African American men in his 40' who have that car. Grim also wouldn't use the rust orange Pinto anymore, he would of got rid of it after victim 8 Jackie survived.
I've been "following" the case since I first heard about it in Sept. and I even made a fake case file. I sooo want this guy to get caught. I would love to meet him in person tho. Anyways, this is NO joke. But the other day I saw a guy in a car just like that, and it was an African American, who looked like he was in his 40s. I was like omg...is that him?! Which scares me, since i live pretty far from South LA, in a pretty nice neighborhood.
thank you for making this website. i hated how it seemed like this sick man was being ignored, and this is a great site. ur shedding light to something that seems to be ignored.