The Grim Sleeper Investigation

50 Responses to “Map”

• 1 D Says:
  December 27th, 2008 at: 7:08 am

  A question: Can we get information on where the victims were living at their time of death? See if they were near one another perhaps? And comparing where they were found to where they lived might also give us some insight.

  It may also provide some help in narrowing down where the Sleeper himself was living during the time of his murders if many of the victims are clustered in the same area. If he’s clever, dumping the bodies within a few miles of each other could be a simple red herring.

• 2 admin Says:
  December 27th, 2008 at: 8:32 pm

  Because the investigation is live and current, it is very hard to get any facts, figures or other information from LAPD. We’ve approached a number of sources but have generally been denied any useful information. We do have an ‘abduction location’ for Alicia Alexander. Generally though, the other victims were highly mobile so they could have been anywhere in the city when they were accosted by the killer.

  Your point about the killer being clever enough to consider planting ‘red herrings’ is interesting but is contrary to his apparent dis-interest in covering his tracks. There was no apparent effort to hide DNA or ballistics from his victims so planting red herrings is unlikely. There is certainly something drawing him to Western Ave that’s for sure.

• 3 D Says:
  January 4th, 2009 at: 2:15 am

  That’s unfortunate. I would be interested in Alicia’s abduction location however.

  Though if we knew where the girls lived, we might be able to make an educated guess as to where the Sleeper himself was located.

  You make a good point about lacking interest in covering his tracks. Although I may be giving the Sleeper more credit than he deserves, but couldn’t he have originally been using the volume of murders in LA as well as the common nature of dying by gunshot to cover his tracks a bit more. It’s easier to distinguish and solve a crime that has unique features then it is to work on one with so many features similar to many others.

  Unfortunately, I lack the information necessary to make a legitimate guess as to his intelligence.

• 4 Annee Albritton Says:
  February 27th, 2009 at: 9:20 am

  Most serial killers remain in a 20 mile radius to where they dwell and kill. He prefers to shoot them in the chest because it gaurantees a quick death. With his attempts with stragulation, he was not satisfied with that technique. It was probably to time consuming for his methodology and there would definitely have been a struggle between him and his victims. His profile of killing is very typical to other serial killers. He enjoys the the “lure game” by gaining their trust. He is a control freak because of this. Then when is he is satisfied with his game of degradation through sexual assault, he shoots them to further abuse the bodies after he has satisfied his power trip. Remind you, he is not sexually aroused of what these women are but of what they represent to his psyche - the slipping away of their lives infront of his eyes. He wants to communicate to society by leaving random notes. The napkin must have been from a local bar where he bought drinks for the victim.

• 5 T Says:
  February 27th, 2009 at: 10:36 am

  Has anyone considered the possibility that this individual may not be from the LA area? When I looked at the map, I noticed the proximity to LAX. The grouping of the body dumps indicates to me that he’s comfortable with this area. All of the bodies were dumped north of the I-105 and most were along Western Avenue. With the exception of Princess Berthomieuxm all vitcims were found one or two blocks off of a main road. Perhaps LAPD should see if they can get records from flights into LAX and cross reference against passengers who came in the same time that the murders occurred? The 13 year break could be because of incarceration, but I doubt it, since there’s no DNA match. Might be nothing, but who knows, certainly worth pulling the records.

• 6 Marie Says:
  March 8th, 2009 at: 1:04 am

  I really think this killer lives in the Los Angeles area. He has been successful at living a double life. He is able to act “Normal” so that no one suspects that he would be a dangerous person. He could be a person working in a very high postion where he has access to confidential information and is well respected by his peers. He is indeed an Psycho fronting as a “Normal person”. Then again, he could be someones’ “mysterious” neighbor who is rarely seen out and only goes out at night to do his business. The Police need to look at who owns a gun that the bullets were used in the murders. Also, find out who may have gone “Crazy” after being told they contracted “AIDS”. Isn’t it a medical doctor’s duty to report when a patient is a potentially harnful person to others and himself?? Maybe this guy was sent to a Psychiatrist for a mental evaluation. If so, it is worth looking at all African American males between the age of 45 to late 50’s who live within the areas of where the bodies were dumped. I don’t know if they have to get people to find out who got “AIDS” test in the 80’s, in South LA, and who were Black Males aged late 20’s to 30.

• 7 Crystal Says:
  March 13th, 2009 at: 3:53 pm

  This Man or Woman, seems to focus all his/her energy on African Americans. When looking at all the women that were killed and one man was killed. It makes me think that the man was either not killed by this serial killer or he was a mistake or even so, saw what the serial killer was doing or going to do and maybe tried to stop or confront a suspicious person. The pattern does not fit with one male. Also, I also do not believe that last person (the that survived) was a victim of this serial killer. The report states she was rapped and she convinced the person to let her go…does not fit. The other profiles do not say that any of the women were rapped. The only thing I read that may have been a clue of this serial killer was (she)was shot in the chest. There is one freeway close enough to all the victims (110 Harbor Freeway). I think he travels this freeway. From there the access to travel is very open. Many reports say this serial killer was also a black male. He seems to target neighborhoods that may have a high drug rate and or prostitution level. He also seems to think that any women walking down the road may either be a prostitute or drug user, that may be a way he gets the women in the car…many comments made that he drive up to the women and they get in the car. I believe they would look for a man of the age (47 to 52). At the time of the first murders, the man would have to be old enough to drive, look old enough to have drugs and or look old enough to the women. I would say he would have been in his mid 20’s when this started. Then it looked as though he stopped, I think the first murders was to see if he would get caught then following not being caught he took his time and waited. Then over a long period of time he completely stopped. He must have been doing other stuff, work, house, marriage, children. Maybe now something’s in his life have fallen apart. He has gone back to same rural area….I would probably say that he lives on the outer parts of the area…close but not too close

• 8 Just A thought Says:
  March 14th, 2009 at: 3:13 am

  Were the people he murdered tested for AIDS?He wrote it on the napkin of one of them.If he has AIDS it could help track him.He has lived 23 years since.He must be getting treatment.He isn’t worried about leaving samples for police so were they able to test it to see if that could be his motive.He does have 1 who lived & she was raped.Since she was never told about her case being the work of a serial killer I question if they bothered to check it.The church van being warm after the 911 call suggests your killer had the keys to that van.I question if that was checked.THE 1 that lived tells of being mistaken for a local prost. was the prost. located & questioned on the church van or orange Pinto?The woman knew the pros she was mistaken for.The bullet in her chest matched all the others.I just don’t get why he dumped her not in the normal way & without knowing she was dead.

• 9 gary Says:
  April 1st, 2009 at: 9:21 pm

  I like the theory that the killer just might be an airline employee who comes in & out. That theory works with my own that the killer might be an immigrant or illegal immigrant since his DNA and fingerprints can’t be linked to a person in the FBI records. If the killer was an airline employee, that would explain how he knows the area well. He has enough time between flights to sleep over and hunt before leaving again. There was a serial killer (captured) doing that kind of thing about ten years ago. A Mexican immigrant who rode the railroad freight cars as a ‘homeless’ type. The attacks & victims were all near a RR track.

• 10 curious Says:
  April 2nd, 2009 at: 5:10 pm

  heres what i was thinking about too
  and i think it was….

  1. victim is crying, screaming, moving or do whatever she did that bother the g.s while driving on the streets. therefore he cant just stop on the street and stab, hit, beat her.
  people are around the blocks too, afraid to cause alert. he just pushed her out of the car.

• 11 Gary Says:
  April 4th, 2009 at: 9:35 pm

  As amusing as it might seem, there is another possibility that nobody here as mentioned regarding the single male victim.

  Its possible that the single male victim had dressed himself as a female (transvestite) and the GS mistook him for a female, then killed him simply to avoid a witness the suspects appearance, etc.

  The photo of the male victim wasn’t a photo of the way he looked at the time of his death. He could have been using a wig, shaved facial hair, etc. The police could have kept this aspect secret in their file so as to prevent people like us from interfering in the investigation.

• 12 gary Says:
  April 5th, 2009 at: 3:27 am

  On the Church van, look at the map link & notice that the “Church” was actually a storefront type operation and not a stand alone “Church.” When you run the phone number of the “Church,” it comes out to “The Wright Road: Adult Day Care” and/or “St. Luke” which I guess is what is in the building currently. However, the parking of vehicles is limited and the “Church” van must have been kept down the street a 100 or so yards in a parking lot along Normandie Ave. That parking lot has a 4 foot iron fence around it…. and thats all….. or maybe the fence is new and there was NO fence around the parking lot years back. so as Jay said in his post, if the Church kept their key for the van hidden in the van itself with a magnetic box, the van was EASILY moved while being outside of view of the Church members.

  The van could have been driven by:
  a church member (and falsely reported by the killer?)
  the killer himself (having access to the van key as a church member?
  or some unknown person.

  Bottom line: the van does not appear to have been kept in a secure, safe location. It was in plain view of passing cars. One suggestion by others on this board is that the killer merely copied the license number down & called it in as a way to toy with the police. After looking at the storage lot for the van, I can see how that might have happened.

• 13 PR Says:
  April 6th, 2009 at: 3:59 am

  time of death posted on the map icons might be useful. if they all happened around the same time, say at night, then some conclusions could be drawn, i.e., that he was employed or in school during the day, etc. the guy who called in the tip sounded black to me, for what that’s worth. and he didn’t sound particularly young. i would put his age at 40ish. possibly from a southern state? that would make him too old to be the killer besides, if the sole survivor hasn’t ID’s the caller’s voice as the GS by now, then it’s probably not him. my best guess is that the GS grew up and lives in Inglewood, and is comfortable straying only so far. i do agree that having that many victim locations right off the i-110 makes it look as though he could be coming off the freeway (as opposed to living there). i do not know what the pattern is for serial killers. do most ‘know’ their territory? i tend to think someone would want more than passing familiarity with areas where they are dumping victims. too much at stake. which would point to his living in Inglewood.

• 14 Nancy Says:
  April 6th, 2009 at: 5:29 am

  The reports say he was a black man with an accent, but doesn’t specify what type of accent. Most of the attacks happened on weekends, have the police looked into cruise ships that are docked during those times? They have lots of black men with accents. Occasionally, during transition cruises they come in during the week, like on a 10 day cruise. I have taken many cruises, and the crew members do not go through the same security checks as passengers, they go through a separate entrance to get back on the ship, so no metal detectors, they could get a gun on and off the ship with no problem.

  The long absence of killing, the suspect could have been transitioned to ships docking in other ports, and perhaps he killed in those other places, Texas, Florida, San Juan, Washington, Hawaii.

  We know the note was on a napkin, I don’t know what kind, but cruise ships use restaurant style napkins. One could easily be taken off a ship.

  Since most ships are not registered in the US, no record would show up for a ship employee, even though the company may be US based, what are their security policies? Do they finger print employees?

  Most of the employees have no expenses, so they save their money, he could have saved money, bought the car, and could have it stored in a storage place while he’s at sea. Or he could have stolen the car from the pier parking lot. He could have stolen the Church van since it wasn’t in a secure location. The waiters and bus boys try to engage everyone in conversations during meal services. They could have gotten the info that way, or perhaps someone from the church had taken a cruise, and the information was overheard. If the crew member had a day off while in port, it wouldn’t be that hard to go check it out.

  Have any of the victims ever been on a cruise before? Could they have met this man before the actual attacks? Plus if someone is foreign to this country, they wouldn’t be as careful with DNA evidence, because there isn’t any on file anywhere in the US? Or perhaps the techniques used in the US isn’t anything they are familiar with, or anything that is used in their country of origin.

• 15 Larry Says:
  April 6th, 2009 at: 11:24 am

  I would look at the Hollywood Park as being a likely location that hangs out. Almost all the victims 5 on all are in that area.
  I would also think he changed churches closer to Manchester and Western.
  The first group was pretty close to that church.
  The group after 5 to now is all in this other location grouped and the abduction site. I would think he changed churches…
  Churches and targeting drug users and prostitutes around that church.

  Maybe he thinks he is cleaning up the area around his Church…

  I still think his mom was a Crack whore!

• 16 Melanie Says:
  April 6th, 2009 at: 6:45 pm

  I am new to this case and just getting a feel for it, so bear with me. Looking at the map, I find it strange that the survivor and the victim Barbar Ware, who was reported by the anonymous caller are on the East side of the Harbour Freeway whereas the other victims were found on the West side. I am trying to work out a theory as to why he chose this side. Because he was driving the van, is there any reason why he would choose the East side rather than the West - ie: the exit point of the van compared to the Pinto. Also I’ve read reports that the survivor said she was going to a party and the GS had asked if he could come too but had to visit a friend first - could it be that when he parked up at the house of the “friend” that this was actually his house and he had gone back there to retrieve the gun. Maybe he hadn’t gone out that night looking to kill. According to reports she could not recall the name of the street - but I wonder if this is something that has been looked into.

• 17 gary Says:
  April 7th, 2009 at: 2:30 am

  Good observation on the single victim being dumped on the one side of the freeway rather than with the others. Could be anything. A whim. A fear of too many police patrols on the regular side. An intention to confuse his police pursuers by changing the dump locations. An effort to scare someone he knows who lives in that dump neighborhood. Maybe the GS mind was just swirling that night and directions didn’t flow right from his brain to his hands on the steering wheel. Under the influence.

• 18 Melanie Says:
  April 7th, 2009 at: 7:03 pm

  Okay, I have a couple of questions which I hope someone can shed some light on:
  1.Do we know when the police realised that they had a serial killer on their hands - after which victim? Obviously he wasn’t called the GS before the “lull” - was there another name given?
  2. There seems to be a lot of focus on the Pinto as his means of travel, however, as far as I can see, the only person to describe this was the survivor - How do we know that this was the car used to kill the other victims bar Barbara Ware - could he have been changing transport for each victim to avoid capture? If he had access to the van and pinto, maybe he had access to other cars too.

  Gary - you suggest that maybe his mind was swirling - maybe under the influence. Definately possible - I have a feeling (maybe gut instinct!!)that the survivor was not part of the plan that night. He wasn’t prepared like he was with all the others - had no intention of killing that night. I don’t think he had the gun with him hence he had to go a house to “visit someone”.

  She survived, he got scared of being caught - as she was his last known attack until 2002, so he moved away. I don’t think, as suggested by some, that he’d married, found God etc. It looks like he had to lie low or carry out his fantasies somewhere else - using a different method. Oh so many questions to be answered. I hope he caught very soon.

• 19 gary Says:
  April 7th, 2009 at: 7:21 pm

  Melanie in comment # 18: I also wondered, as I’m sure the police have, if he somehow realized his victim survived that night. He may have seen her moving & was unable to stop her as she had already reached a more public sidewalk from where she was initially let out. He may have followed her & wondered how to finish her off but couldn’t due to many witnesses around her driving here and there. So, as you said, THAT might have scared him so bad he moved from the area. Now that he has returned, as least for visits, my guess is she wouldn’t recognize him any longer. His hair has turned gray, or fallen out, he has gained weight, and maybe thick eye glasses now…. so he feels secure in killing on his old turf again.

  On the Pinto vehicle: I think there was more than one witness to that.

• 20 admin Says:
  April 7th, 2009 at: 7:42 pm

  reply to comment #18
  1) The police realized they had a serial killer on their hands in 2007 after the latest killing linked several of the previous murders. Detective Bill Fallon says “We became aware of it right around April 2007 when we realized that there was a serial killer because of the DNA leads we started getting.”

  2) The Pinto featured in the killing of Mary Lowe:
  http://find.thegrimsleeper.com/test/6-mary-lowe/

• 21 carbuff Says:
  April 7th, 2009 at: 7:44 pm

  #16 and #18, Melanie — at least two other victims were reportedly seen getting into an orange Pinto (check out the America’s Most Wanted video).

  That’s interesting about Barbara Ware going to the party and him having to stop at a friend’s house. That’s the same pattern with the victim who survived; the killer said he had to stop at his uncle’s house and apparently came out with the gun.

• 22 Melanie Says:
  April 8th, 2009 at: 6:56 pm

  #21 - Hi Carbuff - It wasn’t Barbara Ware who was going to the party (or maybe she was but its not reported). I was speaking from the survivor’s recall of the events. She mentioned that she was going to a party to the GS and he invited himself along after mentioning going to the “house” first. I wasn’t aware that he had said “uncle” though - I thought he’d said “friend’s” house. Didn’t mean to throw anyone off track.

• 23 carbuff Says:
  April 8th, 2009 at: 7:49 pm

  #22 - hm, I’ll have to go back to look at the pointers and stuff. I was sure I read something about an uncle’s house, but I can’t find it now.

• 24 admin Says:
  April 8th, 2009 at: 7:57 pm

  You are correct carbuff. The survivor is quoted in the LAWeekly article as saying that the man “..merely needed to make a quick stop at his uncle’s house to pick up some money,…”
  http://www.laweekly.com/2009-03-12/news/grim-sleeper-39-s-sole-survivor/2

• 25 carbuff Says:
  April 8th, 2009 at: 11:06 pm

  Thanks, admin, I knew I had seen it somewhere.

  I’m starting to appreciate how difficult the homicide detective’s job is. I have trouble keeping track of even the basic data. In a case this massive, it’s no wonder a detail or loose end here and there might be overlooked, especially in the 80’s when they were trying to deal with two or three murders a day.

• 26 admin Says:
  April 8th, 2009 at: 11:20 pm

  We are going to address this by creating an online GS encyclopaedia which will contain everything about the case in a continually updated format. A big job indeed!

• 27 ray Says:
  April 9th, 2009 at: 4:04 am

  GS went through 3 phases as a citizen living in LA. You can get a glimpse of these phases based on the time frame and locations of the body drop-offs. The phases also suggest where he resided at time of killings.
  (Phase 1) GS in his mid/late 20’s was an inferior person-but not yet a killer. He loathes himself and women. He knows victim #1, she spurns him and he kills her. He does not know what to do immediately with the corpse. The corpse was decomposing when discovered in its less then discrete spot so he was probably indecisive after this 1st kill. Took him some time to figure out what to do. He decides eventually to dump it. Not near home. He winds up dropping it by a one way alley. Not his best drop cause hes new to this. It also indicates the direction from where he departed from. Based on the map he came from the west. Not East, nor South, nor North. When examined closely the alley is too restrictive in its path. He came from the West. No more then a 20 minute drive bacause hes new to this and hes indecisive. It takes a full year before he kills again. #2 is dropped away from his neighborhood. He will choose a different direction from the 1st but no more then 15-20 from his neighborhood. #3 was an unplanned killing, in his car, and he dumps the corpse out in the open to make quick getaway. GS was threatened and Shaken. This one could be a little closer to home because it was not done on ideal GS terms.

  (phase 2) GS has not been captured and is thinking things over. His drops will now occur at locations farther from his residence. During this period Killings 4-8 occur. Farther from home and in a different direction. Based on his internal compass these are dropped S by SW from his residence. After these he botches #9 and goes into hiatus.
  (phase 3) Older now. He may have moved. He may kill some in a rented hotel where he fears discharging a weapon. Nonetheless he drops bodies at locations that are far from his earlier, or current residence.

  So where did GS live during the 80’s? I dont know LA at all. Based on the above I would think 15-20 west of #1. In and around park mesa heights where there are no pins. Take a power point presentation into those communities with the best evidence. A picture of that car. If were sure its a Pinto, trick it out using photoshop according to the best description and inquire who remembers a skinny weasel in a pinto. Most certainly the peacock considered this one of his finest feathers.

• 28 ray Says:
  April 9th, 2009 at: 5:43 am

  One more thing. After #4 killing lets assume that the 911 caller is the killer. Would his return to his residence, in the more western portion of this map, take him past the church where the van was parked? It might. Maybe a phone was used due west of the church, on his return homeward. If the van was being used at this approximate time, was it returning from a function east of the church where killer could have observed it? More likely van was observed from its parked position. Assuming of course caller was GS.

• 29 carbuff Says:
  April 9th, 2009 at: 2:58 pm

  #26, admin — oh, that’s an excellent idea. Is there something a volunteer could help with? I’d be more than glad to put some time into this.

• 30 Melanie Says:
  April 9th, 2009 at: 5:16 pm

  I’ve been reading about Deputy Ross and found an article by the Washington Post dated 25th February 1989:
  “A sheriff’s deputy allegedly smoking cocaine with a prostitute was arrested in connection with the murders of three prostitutes in an area where at least nine have been killed, police said yesterday”.
  other reports also say that he was arrested for the attack on the survivor as the bullets matched. This was later proved to be wrong by 3 independant experts. It does not list the names of the victims unfortunately.

  In the LA Weekly interview with the survivor, it says that Deputy Ross was also charged with the attack on her. She states that she did not even know that the trial that followed concerned her - not only that, but when eventually showed a picture of Deputy Ross she said that he had a “pig nose” and that she would have remembered this.

  The interesting part about the Washington Post article that intrigues me though, is the part about police being aware of the murder of 9 prostitutes - therefore I believe that they knew that there was a serial killer back then and not after the 14 year lull when technology had advanced.

• 31 admin Says:
  April 9th, 2009 at: 5:31 pm

  Yes I think they new they had a serial killer at that time and when they finally nailed Chester Turner they thought that was the end of it. Little did they know that it now looks like there were/are at least two serial killers working the same area of LA.

• 32 carbuff Says:
  April 10th, 2009 at: 12:26 am

  Reading some of the articles in the LA Times archive, it sounds like at one point in the late 80’s, the LA area may have had up to half a dozen killers preying on young black women with troubled lifestyles. Shocking stuff and my heart goes out to the dozens of families who lost a loved one that way. And it all gets dismissed as “prostitutes.” It makes me sick.

• 33 NathalieC Says:
  April 20th, 2009 at: 6:05 am

  All the bodies (except 1 or 2?) are found West of Harbor Fway. It looks like: GS wants to “keep clean” the East part of Harbor Fway. Why ? may be East is where he has a “story”, where he(or family-friend) is (or was) living ?

• 34 NathalieC Says:
  April 24th, 2009 at: 5:29 pm

  - GS dumping seams concentrated on an axis North/South and not East/West.
  - An axis with a spinal cord (S Western Ave). Is it a back prostitute area in LA? Is it the most important in LA?
  - This axis is paralleled to a speed communication way (Harbor Fway) North/South.
  - There is like a “selected area” in the MO.
  - I feel there is a connection between killing 2+3+4: Thomas Steeve (3) has been killed because he recognized GS WITH HIS CAR (in 2). Then GS took 4 months and prepared a different visible killing ritual (4): The dumping out of the “selected area” + a different CAR (or is meaning using another car) + the Gas tank + (the call?). But GS is still using trash + plastic bag + 1 gun shoot… which does-not fellow this logic.
  - The survivor episode is dumped outside of the “selected area”: GS did not finish is work? GS panic? GS did-not want to associate this dumping with the others before: out of the MO?

• 35 carbuff Says:
  April 24th, 2009 at: 7:59 pm

  That’s a good point about victim #3 recognizing the car, causing his own death and leading the murderer to use a different vehicle the next time.

• 36 pdr Says:
  April 27th, 2009 at: 5:09 am

  #9 Gary: For a couple of reasons, I tend to think GS lives North of Inglewood by about five miles (near Jefferson, and close to Western and Normandie). Why? He was described as ‘geeky’ and neat/clean/polite by Margette, the sole survivor. Take a look at a map. You have USC, a Medical Center, a Technical College, and (I think) another college all within a very small area. He spoke with an accent, possibly a Caribbean accent. Campuses are filled with professors, students, and teachers from other areas of the world. If he speaks with a Caribbean accent, then he may not have grown up in South LA, but he is certainly familiar enough with it to use it as a hunting and dumping ground. If he is on staff at one of those schools (maybe a techie?), he is within ten minutes of Inglewood. Margette said he drove a “hot wheels’ car. It had a racing strip, and a fancy interior. He obviously spends time on himself and his possessions. He has a steady job that gives him an income to maintain this “look”. He’s not a janitor, or a car salesman, and he probably doesn’t get his hands dirty. He has a white collar job.

• 37 pdr Says:
  April 27th, 2009 at: 5:43 am

  Another reason I believe GS may be affiliated with a college or technical school is because many of the killings take place at times when teachers and staff may be on break. They occur on or near holidays: New Year’s Day, near Christmas, one was on April 14th or 15th (Easter that year was on the 19th), several were in August, etc.

• 38 pdr Says:
  May 1st, 2009 at: 6:44 am

  btk, the serial killer in wichita, said that after his children were grown, he resumed killing because he was ‘bored’. he too had a 13 year gap between murders. the gs seems more impulsive than radar. he’s opportunistic, and seems to select victims at random. then ‘pops’ them impulsively, when they say the ‘wrong’ (in his eyes) thing. hair trigger temper kind of scary. radar watched his victims and planned more.

• 39 gary Says:
  August 2nd, 2009 at: 11:55 am

  can u please fix the map link so it works…

• 40 GCS Says:
  September 11th, 2009 at: 9:47 pm

  If this person picks up the women he kills, doesn’t it stand to reason that there are some women that he approached that wouldn’t go with him? I would find it extremely hard to believe he could convince EVERY woman he approached to get into his car. Has there ever been anyone come forward saying that someone has asked them to get into his car? there HAS to be! there has to be more than one woman out there that knows something. it might not seem like its relevant to them, just some stranger wanting company, someone asking directions, saying they are a friend of a friend or something, trying to lure them. there has to be smeone out there! odd…so very odd!!!

• 41 jb Says:
  November 18th, 2009 at: 9:08 pm

  i’m currently researching the GS for a class in profiling violent crimes & murders. of the comments above pointed out that the GS dump sites are within proximity to USC & several other colleges. if the GS was at USC doing his undergrad that would explain the time between the 1st & last (first set) of victims (85-88). there was a 13 year break. it takes exactly 13 years to complete medical school in order to become a psychiatrist. maybe he came back post school & started up again.

• 42 wtxyz Says:
  March 18th, 2010 at: 5:24 pm

  GCS!! that’s a good question to bring up. that;s why thomas steele had to be killed he knew the grim sleeper. as did all of his victim’s. that’s why the grim sleeper kills. he cant leave witnesses because he is well known in la and he has the trust of the comunnity. he may have been having sex with debra jackson for some time, and debra demanded something from him that he could not give up or would not give up so he killed her to quiet her, and his erge for prostitutes was greater than he could stand. (1) one year later his urge pushed him again to henrietta wright. he knows he cant leave a witness so he kille again. two day’s later he kills thomas steele. thomas catches him with henrietta,but before thomas knows whats going on the sleeper does him.

• 43 curious 2b informed Says:
  May 20th, 2010 at: 9:01 pm

  It is impossible to even come up with any damn theory with the information we have been given. For all we know the GS could be the admin of this website who started the site to revel in all his glory.

  There are too many holes to fill in. Where are the victims from? What were their activities of the day leading up to the deaths? Where were they last seen prior to death?

  Also, I am puzzled as to why they arrested a white man in 2007 as a “suspect” (not a “person of interest”, but a “suspect”) in the GS murders? I do realize that by that time, they were probably drawing at straws and desperate to arrest SOMEONE…and he did confess to killing some prostitutes in L.A…. but why an old white man when the only surviving victim of the GS clearly stated that he was a black man who looked to be in his 30’s? Either 1) more than one person’s DNA was found at the scene (hinting that the police in fact DID suspect an accomplice), 2) They are not so sure that the man really is in fact, black (questioning the eyewitness’ story), or 3) they suspected that maybe, not all of the murders were the work of the GS (there were 2 victims strangled, which does not follow the constant pattern of the MO for the GS)…

  Which leads me to question why GS is a suspect in the murders of these strangled victims (is the proximity of where the bodies were discovered and the victimology, the ONLY link between the other victims who were shot?) Or do they have DNA?

  Which then leads me to this… I do not buy the story of the GS being in prison somewhere for 13 years… the police are not stupid and they would have checked the databases all over the country for a DNA match, fingerprints, etc… and if he was in the prison system until around 2000, he would at least have fingerprints on file SOMEWHERE! However, 13 years is long enough to raise a child to the age where you no longer have to be at home ALL the time… this is my guess… he settled down with a child (stranger things have happened, lest I remind you that there have been cases in which this was a factor) Once the child got old enough, he started up again… I don’t find it ironic that after the 13-year gap, it was a 14-year-old he assaulted and then strangled… let’s also remember the last victim before the gap was also a young teenager… all of his other victims were older (at least old enough to buy alcohol). Could it be? (and I’m merely speculating a theory of my own here peeps) But, could it be that his last kills were directed at young people because a child was about to be the reason why he was going to have to stop for awhile?… and then maybe after the gap, killed an even younger child out of frustration of having to lay dormant for so long BECAUSE of a child?… then he went back to his original victimology and MO… Strangulation is a personal and intimate form of killing someone…and if they know for a FACT that he did these crimes also, then I feel both victims who were strangled represented someone to him… someone he both loathed and loved… someone he was “scared” to actually kill himself, like an abusive mother, etc. so he killed others out of anger… you see, shooting a victim indicates a somewhat, cowardly form of killing… puts them outside of the kill in a way… it wasn’t ME that killed her, it was the gun (sounds crazy but you’d be surprised what goes through the minds of some of these people)But with two of them (one being the 14-yr-old), he made it personal by strangling them… I don’t think he was trying to “cover his tracks” and change his MO to throw off police… otherwise, why use the same dump site? It doesn’t make sense, and he is apparently not that stupid since he’s gotten away with it this long. No… I believe these 2 were personal.

  Okay, this brings me to another thing lol… sorry I just have a lot of questions lol… why was the last victim Janecia Peters shot in the back? All of his other shooting victims were straight to the chest (he was looking at them)… with Janecia, was she running away? Or was this maybe his final act of coward? And he couldn’t bring himself to look at this one? He had to shoot her in the back because he couldn’t look directly at her when he killed her… Maybe he really did lose the urge to kill? It’s been 3 years now… maybe he’s laying dormant again, or maybe he’s already dead… or maybe I’m him and I live right next door to you but you won’t know it… and the reason why? Is because like I said, we don’t have all the facts… so until then? Isn’t there something we can do as citizens? This man could be sitting at home right now with his own family enjoying life to the fullest, while the families of his victims struggle to make it through every damn holiday, birthday, death anniversary day, and just any damn day period because their mother, daughter, niece, sister, aunt or cousin died senseless deaths… and not all of these victims were prostitutes! I think his target is black women period… He concentrated on prostitutes because they are easier targets, but I think he’s proven that he would kill anyone (even a man) if he’s given the opportunity to do so… he just looked for lone women to pick up and generally prostitutes and drug-users are the ones walking around vulnerable at night… but one of the victims had no prostitution arrests at all… I’m guessing she was walking around by herself at the wrong place, at the wrong time… and we don’t even know where that was!

  I also have one OTHER theory that MIGHT be possible… the surviving victim said he was wearing khaki pants with a black polo shirt tucked in to his pants… hate to stereotype here, but those are the clothes of either a preppy college guy… or someone who lives by the beach… with that being said, almost all of the victims (except 2 and one was right at the border on the East side)… were all found South of the 10… North of the 105, East of the 405 and West of the 110… either going North and dropping victims or going South and dropping victims, all of those roads (Western being the main road) give him a clear shot of any freeway going BACK to the West… say, the beach area? That still puts him within 15-20 miles of all of the crime scenes… but it puts him far enough away, that no one would probably even think about that notion… a preppy beach bum coming in to satisfy his killing urge, but doing it in an area, and to women, that he has no respect for, and also feels like no one will really notice or care because the crime rate is so high in that area anyway. Kill someone out by the beach, and the police take notice… kill someone around the Inglewood area, not too many people take notice. It’s fu**ed up that it’s that way… but I don’t make society’s rules… even though I sometimes feel forced to live by them lol.

  So okay, sorry I wrote a damn novelette lol… I just wish I had more information to try to piece together… because there is no way to know anything with the little information we have been given… I realize that this is an ongoing investigation and they are not allowed to release certain pieces of information… but it sucks not having much to go on lol… okay then… Peace! Curios 2b informed

• 44 WTF Says:
  May 21st, 2010 at: 8:19 pm

  Thanks, Curios 2b informed - good points and questions and nice to know that a few people out there still give a crap about this case other than the families of the victims. But like you said yourself in half jest - you could be the GS and we wouldn’t know it because the cops have mishandled this case so badly that anything is possible!

  I’m beginning to doubt that this guy will be found. This despite the new billboards, etc. He could even be out of state or dead at this point though I personally think he is still here in L.A.

• 45 Justin Says:
  May 28th, 2010 at: 12:42 am

  Curios 2B Informed (comment #43): Although I do agree with some of your points, there are other things I’d like to clear up. Janecia Peters (victim #11) was not the only victim who was shot in the back. Thomas Steele (victim #3 and TGS’ only known male victim) was also shot in the back. According to the L.A. Weekly, the LAPD does have TGS’ DNA but the testing which was done apparently failed. As for the survivor’s description of his wearing a black polo shirt, khaki pants and work shoes–that is pretty much considered casual or dress-casual attire these days and I’ve seen quite a few men who are not college students wearing clothes like that. I, for one, would not think that he lives by the beach as he obviously has an encyclopedic knowledge of South L.A.’s geography and (apparently) is very familiar with the alleys’ locations. When one takes that into account, it’s almost a given that he grew up in South L.A. and has intimate knowledge of the area regardless of wether he still lives in the area or not. By the way, this website’s administrator is a White man.

• 46 RMark Says:
  June 27th, 2010 at: 3:36 am

  It appears that every one of these cases is an LAPD handle. Isn’t it possible that LASD Lennox,Firestone, or Inglewood just didn’t handle the evidence so that a DNA record would exist?
  I’m not trying to make anyone mad, but I’m having a hard time believing that none of the bodies got dumped in the county or another city. The gap may have just been a small migration, not a ’sleeper’ at all.
  Maybe it’s time to go back and retest evidence for every female victim of an unsolved murder or sex assault. Nothing else seems to be working.
  What if one more witness or survivor was discovered?

• 47 4BC Says:
  July 4th, 2010 at: 5:14 am

  - The killer had an accent, according to the survivor, right? I wish we knew what kind of accent, but whether it is/was a Caribbean, African, or Latin American, or even a European (British) accent, what it does indicate is that he is almost certainly an immigrant, who thus did not grow up in South Central LA.

  - The 1st and 2nd killings were almost exactly a year apart +2 days: August 10th, 1985, and August 12th, 1986. 3rd killing, only male victim ever, happens 2 days later? Execution style back of head, male obviously HAD to be killed, knew something/had seen something/suspected/was an accomplice. Also seems obvious GS knew him.

  - Looking at the timeline, this guy is very habitual, in the 80s at least he HAD to kill, he was like clockwork for awhile after the 1986 two kill/two days spree, after Steele he takes almost exactly 6 months off before victim #4. Then almsot exactly 3 months off before #5, then 6 1/2 months off before victim #6, then almost exactly 3 months off before #7, then 9 months before #8, then only a little over 2 months before attempted #9 (survivor). Then 13 and 1/2 years before victim #9 (Princess), and the much more sporadic new millenium murders.

  - Another thing that can be drawn from the timeline and habituality, is that, frighteningly, he probably has many other victims that have not been linked to his series. Especially, he probably had several kills during the “Sleep” of the 90s. I strongly believe he in fact fled the country after the survivor, almost certainly to the area of the world he originally came from (Caribbean, Africa), probably to his native country. Victims and series in developing countries would be less thoroughly investigated, less technology, less organized/expert police. So he fled because he was sure they were going to track him down if he stayed (wrong, he probably would have been fine given LAPD NEVER TOLD the media/public there was a very legit serial on the loose, and that he was blach man in his 30s driving a customized orange Ford Pinto!!!!!), and kept a low profile outside the US for over a decade, before returning to South Central, more in control, killing less often.

  - I hate to say it, but it’s obvious, he is crafty as hell, how he has not been caught is frankly beyond me. I mean he had a goddamn serial-killer-mobile! That custom Pinto alone should have got him caught a LONG time ago. Someone who knew him would remember him having it, unless he kept it hidden and only brought it out on nights he was going to hunt. I find that somehow unlikely though. It also shows he had some money, even to customize the thing, but especially if he kept it hidden and therefore had to own another vehicle.

  - If that Pinto was his regular vehicle, I am frankly baffled by the lack of leads. Again, someone would remember that thing. Is it possible that this case (possibly the most prolific active, uncaught serial killer in the US) recieves so little media attention that the people who know him, and would remember the car, aren’t aware of the case at all and thus have never connected the dots?

  - More on the Pinto. That car is long gone, probably painted over by hand by GS and then scrapped. He almost certainly got rid of it very soon after the survivor in 88. The survivor is also almost certainly the reason for his 13 1/2 year break. More on that later.

  - Pinto again. Let’s say that he in fact didn’t keep the Pinto hidden or in storage. It’s possible, and would have been somewhat clever, but it seems extravaggant, expensive, cumbersome and highly unnecessary to keep a car. Let’s assume instead that the Pinto was his regular car. People in South Central would remember that car, and they would surely be aware of the case by now and the significance of the car, and someone would have come forward. I would like to propose that he MAY have driven in from outside LA to commit the killings, and that possibly the only reason no one has come forward with memories from the 80s of an Orange Pinto with a white racing stripe, is that they are not aware of the case. I is massively underreported in the media.

  - unfortunately for my “drove in from outside LA” theory is that, due to the proximity of the body-dumps to each other, common sense dictates that GS was a resident of the area where he was killing in the 80s, and probably still is. Or at least, WAS living in South Central again from 2002 to 2007 when the final 3 known victims occured. But again, one way or another, that Pinto was not a common sight in South Central, or GS would be identified by now.

  - I will post more later.

• 48 The Grim Sleeper Investigation » Blog Archive » Grim Sleeper Notes Says:
  July 4th, 2010 at: 11:48 am

  [...] is a comment received on the Maps section of this website but I think it warrants a post of its own. It neatly summarizes important [...]

• 49 4BC Says:
  July 4th, 2010 at: 9:17 pm

  Hey, thanks for the recognition! Didn’t expect that.

  I’ve been aware of this case for awhile now. Read the LA Weekly article a few months ago and was shocked at the lack of political will and media attention directed at catching this extremely dangerous man. In my opinion the Grim Sleeper would have been caught back in the 80s if he had been operating anywhere but in the “ghetto” of South Central, where apparently public safety was and still is NOT a priority for police and city politicians.

  I am also surprised that the police have been unable to get even a solid suspect. The police surely have exhausted all of the more obvious avenues (cross examination of DNA, DMV records of owners of Ford Pintos and other hatchbacks in Los Angeles area [especially in South Central] during 80s, Cosmopolitan Church members, black immigrants who fit description, owners of registered .25 calibre handguns in LA area [again especially in SC] even though that gun was probably not registered) etc, etc. So clearly the GS has covered his tracks well.

  Also, the “mustard-colored house surrounded by hedges” that GS apparently stopped at to talk to someone, and where he may have retrieved his .25, while driving around with the Survivor, before he had attacked her, that is an intriguing potential lead. I am not sure how much the police would have looked into that. They probably figured driving around all of South Central looking for a specific house would be a waste of time. Now I will acknowledge that there might be a lot of houses in the area that fit that description. And the house MIGHT have been painted a different color or had the hedges removed, and other houses could have been painted mustard-yellow and grown hedges. But if that house could somehow be found, determining WHO WAS LIVING THERE IN 1988 could bust the case wide open.

  Anyways, I am thinking about becoming a police officer up here in Canada, and have an uncle who is a narcotics cop, so I am interested in this kind of thing. Moreover, I really hate the idea of the GS going uncaptured, the media and public ignoring and forgetting this, and am especially worried that he will kill again or is still killing. I am going to keep trying to come up with theories, and possible methods for raising profile of case. Probably won’t do any good, especially given that LAPD can’t crack it, but you never know. Keep working people.

• 50 4BC Says:
  July 10th, 2010 at: 2:01 am

  Oh wow, they caught the bastard.

  Or so it would seem, at least. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and all that. But I really hope this thing can finally be brought to a close, for the sake of the victim’s families. And for the families of the other girls he probably killed that we aren’t aware of.

  And perhaps most of all, for the sake of the girls who probably would have been killed by him, if he hadn’t finally gone down.

  Congrats LAPD, even if it was a lucky break.

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