WHAT MALE WAS THERE AT THE CHURCH OR WHAT MALE HAD ACCESS TO THE VAN???
Church members told detectives that the van with the license plate matching the anonymous tip was used to shuttle people around until 11:20 p.m. Ware's body was found in the alley (four miles away from the church) one hour later, and Detective Kilcoyne explained that police think Ware was killed at least three or four hours before her body was actually dumped.
Don't get too hung up on the white and blue Dodge van. You've no doubt read our article here:
http://find.thegrimsleeper.com/2009/03/16/the-phone-call-a-discussion/
The 'red-herring' theory is as plausible an explanation as anything else offered. Also we've read a couple of questions asking if the van had been broken into or hot-wired - We can confirm that the van was NOT damaged in any way. If it was used after 11:20 then it was borrowed by someone with a key and returned within half an hour. One thing for certain, the news of the blue and white van has certainly added to the mystery and intrigue.
I wonder if his car broke down with the body in it so he just grabbed the first available vehicle, rushed out to get the body and dump it, then returned it to the parking lot as fast as he could.
I dont think the van ever had a corpse in it. There is no way he could move a corpse from A to B, then off load a corpse by himself, w/o leaving behind some forensic evidence. PD examined and vaccumed this van. So we have to take it on faith that any and all specimens (hair blood)recovered did not originate from the victim.
We know where the corpse was dumped. The killer likely lived west of this dump site. On his return he passed the van, either on the road, or parked at the church. He then took van info and made the 911 call.
This is the best we can do based on available evidence. I believe the caller and GS are one and the same.
By the way if he listen to the caller 3 times in row, then ask yourself is he telling the truth.
Odd that the van was parked over the parking stop...and almost as if it was against the wall (left in a mad rush?). Cops did not bother to get a list of the chruch members, or recent drivers, so they obviously did not take the call very seriously at the time...hard to think that they did much of a job looking for more clues once it seemed church members were using it one hour before and no damage to the van shown. In listening to the 911 call, my gut says it was just a random local who did see it being used by the killer and did not want to get involved other than leaving the tip. I am guessing the surviving victim has listed to that call and did not recognize the voice.
grim, i was referring to my overall research. check it.
http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/1tape-may-hold-clue-to-identif/
AGAIN, WHAT MALE HAD ACCESS TO A KEY OR WHO HAD ACCESS TO A KEY PERIOD? IT REALLY TAKES 5 MINUTES TO MAKE A COPY OF A KEY AND I'M NOT REFERRING TO THAT DAY ALONE. SOMEONE COULD HAVE MADE A COPY OF THE KEY WEEKS OR EVEN YEARS BEFORE. AND WHAT ABOUT THE GAS TANK? WAS THAT IN THE CHURCH VAN BEFORE OR WAS IT IN THE ALLEY ALREADY?????
The Van episode seams unique in the GS killing activities: The Van + the gas tank + the body outside of the "sacred" area (West Harbor Fway).
There is may be a connection with Thomas Steeve killing (the one before).
Thomas may have been killed because he recognized GS WITH HIS CAR. GS took months and decided to make a different visible killing ritual with another car.
Whoever parked that van was a) excited and b) in a real hurry. I believe it was driven by GS. He must have been experiencing a surge of adrenalin; he had just killed again. The weasel was on a power trip. Using the van points to his affiliation with the church, or to a friend or family member affiliated with the church (from whom he could either steal or borrow a key).
The van was found 40 minutes after the crime tip was called in, and the police noted the engine was still warm at that time. Let's say it took GS 10 minutes to get back to the church from the dump site and another 30 minutes for the car to cool down to 'warm'. The murder of Ms. Ware occurred on October 1, 1987. LA weather is usually still fairly warm at that time of year. I've looked up the date on a few online weather alamanacs, and found "maximum of 83 degrees and a minimum of 63 degrees (fahrenheit)". That the van was still warm to the touch fits in weather-wise and time wise with the caller's information.
Anyone else who jumped the parking strip would have taken the time to back up and park it properly before leaving. I think GS was worried someone saw him dump the body or followed him.
CORRECTION: I just realized the timeline (timerime) shows the dates in european style, with the day listed first, then then the month, then the year. Ware's murder was not on October 1, 1987, (10.1.87), but on January 10th, 1987 (10.1.87 in european style). That puts a different spin on the post I just made. I will have to see if I can get any temperature information for LA on that date. Stands to reason that January would be much colder than October, and a car engine sitting outside is going to cool down much faster. Regardless of the new date (January), that the engine was still warm indicates recent use (within less than half an hour, would be my guess).
Here is the closest I can find to weather for Los Angeles on the date the van was found. It shows a maximum temperature of 66.6, a mean of 54.9 and a minimum of 47.3 fahrenheit. No precipitation on that date. I do not see an hour by hour breakdown so no way of knowing what the temperature was at the time the van was parked. I would hazard a guess of 50 degrees. On the cool side, but not freezing.
Based on the guesstimate of temperature and the fact that the police say the engine was still warm, I would say they just missed him (by less than 30 minutes...probably closer to 15 or 20)!
After the killing of Thomas Steele which was right after the murder of Wright (male victim doesnn't fit the MO neither does killing another person in such a short period of time of the last one) I think its safe to say that something went out of plan with the GS. This is why (if he was in persession of his Pinto, which we don't know because at that point the Pinto had not been reported for any of the killings) he used a different car. Also, he realised it was too risky to use a friends or family members car because it can then be traced back to one person only (this being his friend) but if he used a "community van" then if it got seen it would be traced backed to the church who have several users of the van, even if LAPD did follow up with the church community who had used the van that night it not enough evidence to show that it was that person who dumped the body off, also its important not to forget that the LAPD didn't know they were dealing with a serial killer at the time, if they did it possible that the GS may have been arrested that night.
What about the man who phoned 911,who said he saw a man dump a body in alley and he had the license plate number,where the hell is he at? could he be the Grim Sleeper?
or just some eyewitness...a witness that must have seen more and wont tell more.
that man sounds suspicious to me,especially his voice,people have said something about the GS having an accent,I could tell there was some sort of something,dialect,accent, going on in his voice.
And that he knows to many people?
that could mean he is scared,maybe knows to many prostitutes,maybe hes the grim.
who knows?
he did not want to be indentified. he said i know to many people.
he did not say,no I dont want to be involved in this whole situation,cause what if then you people think i am the one who dumped the body.
he would be a suspect.
idk..
who knows.
found this on AMW site...wanted to post it here:
On January 10, 1987, cops received a 911 call from an anonymous caller. The caller, who remains unidentified today, claimed he witnessed a man dump a woman’s body from a van in an alley. LAPD detectives followed up and discovered the body of victim #4, Barbara Ware. Cops say the caller gave cops a complete description of the van and its license plate, which rarely ever occurs.
Hours later, police found a van matching the description and license plate located on the corner of 60th Street and Normandie in LA. The van was licensed and registered to the Cosmopolitan Church. Cops believe this incident was the closest cops have ever come to grabbing The Grim Sleeper.
When cops paid a visit to the church, the parishioners were holding a youth shut-in and told police they had recently used the van to transport people to their event. Cops impounded the vehicle, but no physical evidence could be linked to Barbara Ware’s murder.
According to the Calif. DMV, the van is believed to be in Belize today.
...why Belize?? was the accent of the GS from here???
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