The Pinto
We’ve had a go at preparing a mock-up of a souped up Pinto in an effort to produce a ‘composite’ of the killer’s car based on witness’ accounts in 1988. The model shown below is a 1970’s orange pinto with alloy wheels and the white stripe. We want opinions and suggestions so we can tweak the image to arrive at an ideal interpretation of the car.
Grim Sleeper's Pinto?
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ADDITION:
A question often asked about the orange Pinto identified by several witnesses is whether it actually WAS a Pinto or something similar. Could the make of car be something other than a Pinto? It seems that this car was spotted on at least two separate occasions so the killer either owned the car or had regular access to it. As has already been mentioned, the car was clearly souped up and the owner was obviously proud to show it off (again we reiterate why would a killer garner attention in this manner?). This clue (the car) is a big one - it’s not a nondescript vehicle that’s hard to spot, it’s a red light of a clue that should be easily traceable by police. Given that the Blue Van, the links to the Cosmopolitan Church, the ideally place witness and the souped up orange Pinto are such huge clues, why has this killer been so lucky in evading capture?
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comments please…
28 Responses to “The Pinto”
December 6th, 2009 at: 3:02 am
The survivor (Enietra Margette) said that the car’s interior was very impressive because the upholstery had some sort of “white diamond”-styled pattern and the gear shift resembled a huge ping-pong ball. This almost certainly had to be a custom job and would have been an attention-getter. This is not something which any typical car would have and it would definitely make it stand out. I think the car’s interior (based on Ms. Margette’s description) would have drawn just as much attention as the orange exterior. The interior(in my opinion) should not be ignored.
December 6th, 2009 at: 7:57 pm
Which begs the question; Why would a serial killer use an ‘attention-getting’ car to go about his business? We also note that the survivor claims the car had a sports stripe over the hood which we will endeavor to create in the next ‘composite’ of the car. We’ll also work on creating a composite of the interior.
December 7th, 2009 at: 1:38 am
Good Work so far… It would be great if we could get the surviving victim to chime in on our efforts (in the early stages). Also It would be cool if we could post pictures here and not just links, or if you(admin) wanted to have us send sample pictures to you to assist, please post an email to send them to. Had me wondering what type of stripes down the side? (see this possible sample)
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1788
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1792
Lots of good pictures at the http://www.fordpinto.com website.
BTW..I did email about 15 of the members (Pinto Club) in November, asking for help on this project. I did get 1 interesting reply from a guy in LA that thinks he actually found the orange pinto with racing stripes in a guy’s back yard and was run off when asking if it was possibly for sale (in 1997). He was watching AMW and did call in the tip recently (could not remember the address however). I will direct him here to see if he can make suggestions, now that you added this pinto focus to the website.
December 7th, 2009 at: 10:35 am
Could the guy who was run off find the address using Google Earth? Might be able to see something from the air? Odd, If I’d been run off from a house after inquiring about a car purchase the address would be burned into my mind!
If he can’t remember the address maybe he can remember the road location, or area which would help narrow it down a bit?
December 7th, 2009 at: 10:37 am
Gator, those sample images are excellent. I wonder if we could get permission to use them on this site? Much better than our effort IMO.
December 11th, 2009 at: 8:59 pm
Admin- Did you get my emails with more details on both subjects? (#4 and #5 above)
December 18th, 2009 at: 5:58 pm
The Mercury Bobcat was a Pinto with fancier details, but is bascially the same car as a Pinto. Wonder if a search of Mercury Bobcats was ever done?
Here’s a link to a photo of a Bobcat
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44871759@N00/2917302713/
January 5th, 2010 at: 8:39 am
you are looking for a Bobcat not a Pinto. the bobcat wasn’t sooped up it came with a few options that made it look that way. there were less of them made as well.
January 6th, 2010 at: 2:34 am
I do like the #7 post…Great Idea Drujon! It would be interesting to hear from Surviving victim if she actually noticed the word “pinto” on the car, or the car just looked like a pinto. A car expert needs to sit down with the surviving victim and work out every detail as there could be other clues here IMHO. My gut still has me thinking that the GS had special access to a custom car shop (or family member with access to one). To me, details of the interior sound custom regardless of car make. White interior with lots of blood would be hard to easily clean.
January 6th, 2010 at: 3:00 am
#2 Admin. said, “Which begs the question; Why would a serial killer use an ‘attention-getting’ car to go about his business?” IMHO because it worked. Worked to lure women/targets and at that time the fear of being caught was so minor compared to the thrill of the kill. I think that changed after the surviving victim… survived and why that car was never seen afterward with victims. Why keep using the same gun? Why not change MO’s, why dump the bodies in the same basic area, why not move to a different area? On some level we are all creatures of habit or instinct…if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it theory might apply?
In poker, we say we would rather be lucky than good….I always say I would rather be lucky and good. GS must be both lucky and….. careful enough not to be caught (yet).
January 6th, 2010 at: 7:23 am
Around 2007 I saw a Pinto that just stuck to my mind near Hooper Ave and Manchester Blvd. The owner made an attempt to make the car look like the Starsky and Hutch Torino. I could not see the driver of the vehicle but he was talking to an attractive black woman waiting for the bus.
January 6th, 2010 at: 7:34 am
Oops I forgot but it was a different model than the image that you have on the site more hatchback variety maybe 1971 model.
January 8th, 2010 at: 1:39 am
Sherlock- I think we need to hear more details from the surviving victim about what type of stripes she remembers on the pinto. She reported at one point that stripes were on the hood. On another mention she says on the sides (was it both? and what type?) I have seen the Starsky and Hutch stripes on pintos and AMX and other similar cars and I can see that these are what I would call ‘racing stripes’. I would be very surprised if GS was still using the same orange pinto in 2007 (unless you can remember the driver’s face and it matches the sketches).
January 11th, 2010 at: 3:58 am
Sorry for this critic: This pinto picture is red not orange.
February 2nd, 2010 at: 5:37 am
Another similar car was the Ford Maverick, I believe it had a similar racing stripe in some years. I’m no expert on these, just some memory of them.
February 2nd, 2010 at: 6:57 pm
if he has a pimped out car maybe he goes to car shows with it so look at the last murder and the last car show
February 26th, 2010 at: 3:35 am
Just saw this and thought it stuck out after reading about the orange pinto a few months back:
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/sacjanedoe.htm
The victim does not fit the pattern. But how often do you see unsolved murders that have 70s era orange cars tied to them?
May 9th, 2010 at: 12:13 am
Admin: Hi, Any more efforts to create a better Pinto sketch? I still believe this is a critical clue that would trigger someone’s memory…if they got the details correct and posted that along with Your sketch on billboards in the Kill zones. I would love to ask the surviving victim some detailed questions about the car…. I bet someone would remember that car…
June 2nd, 2010 at: 4:32 am
Could it be a VEGA?
June 2nd, 2010 at: 4:52 am
Could it be a Chevy Vega?
He could be very successful evading capture because he has more than one souped-up car. He could have several.
June 3rd, 2010 at: 8:28 pm
@ leighw79: that’s a possibility. Check out the photos in the link. The Chevy Vega does look similar to a Ford Pinto. Was the survivor 100 % positive about the car that the GS drove? Do we have any car experts out there who can comment on the Ford Pinto versus the Chevy Vega?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Vega
June 5th, 2010 at: 6:26 am
In the L.A. Weekly March 2009 interview with the survivor Enietra Margette, the reporter writes about the Pinto:
Once inside, Margette was impressed by the car’s interior. The gear-shift handle was memorable, pimped out with a ping-pong-sized marble ball. The inside was all-white, with white diamond-patterned upholstery.
(No quotation marks).
http://www.laweekly.com/2009-03-12/news/grim-sleeper-39-s-sole-survivor/2
In another article from December 3, 2009 (almost nine months after Weekly article came out) a reporter in the L.A. Watts Times wrote about the Pinto:
He drove a 1970s two-door Pinto hatchback that was orange with a white stripe, tinted windows, green interior, and tan seat covers.
(Again: no quotation marks).
http://www.lawattstimes.com/life-and-style-mainmenu-31/community/1324-victims-families-get-grim-sleepers-sketch.html
Which of these two reporters got the facts wrong or misquoted the survivor?
Big difference here:
1) All-white interior
2) Green interior and tan seats covers (plus the important detail of tainted windows)
Anyone else here scratching their head? How are they gonna catch this crazy dude when there are all these conflicting facts?!
June 5th, 2010 at: 3:24 pm
There’s a very real possibility that it was a Ford Pinto. Victim #6 (Mary Lowe) was seen getting into a Ford Pinto the night she disappeared and was murdered.
June 5th, 2010 at: 6:03 pm
It probably WAS a Pinto but at this point I’m more curious about the two very different descriptions of the interior of the car. (see my previous post above for details)
June 11th, 2010 at: 4:24 am
WTF, I am actualy researching some of your comments. You make some valid comments. You seem like your really involved in this investigations.
June 12th, 2010 at: 5:33 am
# 25, Becky: there are many valid comments on this site other than mine but thanks. I’ve read every one of them over the past few months and I hope the LAPD has someone doing the same. We’re all brainstorming and speculating but it beats just sitting around.
I can only imagine what the families are going through.
A great book on a similar case is one about Gary Ridgway aka The Green River Killer by the Seattle area detective who never gave up on the case and ended up catching Ridgway.
http://www.amazon.com/Chasing-Devil-Twenty-Year-Capture-Killer/dp/0316156329/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1276320595&sr=1-2-fkmr0
July 8th, 2010 at: 2:36 am
…turns out he may still have the pinto… this just released in one of the news articles I read today…”A young woman told the Weekly Franklin recently worked on the brakes on her car and that he took her along as he drove to an auto parts store.
“Some things that were said were a little perverted,” 19-year-old neighbor Chantal Mason told the Weekly. “Comments he made were a little over-the-top when it came to women. I just thought he was an older guy that was a little on the perverted side.”
But, she said, “I never was a afraid of him.”
She said he drove a few different cars, and that they were possibly vehicles that belonged to his customers. Santiago said a car similar to the one featured in a story about the Grim Sleeper on America’s Most Wanted — an orange Ford Pinto — was known to be used by Franklin.
wow.. he was a “car guy” all along..but the notes GS had a preppy look threw us off ..I can’t wait to see a picture of that car and wonder if it was in that garage!!
July 9th, 2010 at: 12:41 pm
…just found this article… http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2012312704_grimsleeper09.html
“No one appears to have noticed that for years he drove a dated, bright orange Pinto with red racing stripes, the same car that was once described as the killer’s car by the one victim who was known to have escaped from the killer.
The victim who survived also told police the killer had taken a photograph of her after he’d sexually assaulted her. One friend, Albert Shelby, 63, recalled Thursday that he was riding with Franklin one day when Franklin popped open the glove compartment and pulled out a stack of photographs of naked women.”
…so the LAPD never did a basic DMV search for the pinto? They could have taken drivers licence photos on file of registered owners and showed them to the Surviving Victim….? (I did hear of 2 pintos they went to look at in the early days of the case, but how did they still miss this?) Pinto here was reported as a red stripe {Not white} so he could have painted that quickly to change the look just enough.
Wow…I hope they talk more about the pinto….
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