Grim Sleeper TODAY?
Using the recently released composite sketch of the Grim Sleeper, we’ve attempted to manipulate the image to reflect how the killer might look today.
Here is the LAPD’s OFFICIAL 1988 composite sketch…
LAPD OFFICIAL 1988 Composite
and below is thegrimsleeper.com’s UNOFFICIAL ‘updated version’…
UNOFFICIAL AGED Composite
We think the result gives a good interpretation of how the younger man in the original composite would have aged over the last 21 years. The older man now has a duller, worn look around his eyes, his hairline has receded and the skin on his face has dropped. The face is fuller and the glabella is lower over the eyes. He now has deeper set nasiolabial lines and darker skin tones.
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Discuss…
18 Responses to “Grim Sleeper TODAY?”
November 23rd, 2009 at: 7:31 am
Found him: http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/cgi/prosoma.dll?searchby=offender&id=1869408317537
November 23rd, 2009 at: 5:53 pm
This guy is a little too old (born 1951)
November 23rd, 2009 at: 6:14 pm
My jaw dropped on the floor when I checked this site today, but for different reasons that most of you: the 1988 drawing released by the LAPD and shown on Fox TV and on this site is NOT the black/white pencil or charcoal sketch I’ve seen with my own two eyes at L.A. Weekly offices in March. What is going on here? Where did this color drawing come from??? As for his description: looks like we’ve finally had the LAPD confirm that his face is pockmarked, which is something not every middleaged black man in L.A. has. His height seems on the low side - I’d go with the high end: 5′10″, maybe 6′ even. It would have been difficult for Enietra to judge teh man’s height, easier to recall his face. The only thing I’m concerned about is that we’ll have a witchhunt on our hands and that every man in L.A. who resembles the man in the drawing will be get funny looks. The last thing we need is for the public to have another reason/excuse to be scared of black men.
November 23rd, 2009 at: 6:28 pm
The LAPD has not updated the website. I had to go digging for any info on the GS case, but finally the bulletin here:
http://www.lapdonline.org/reward_bulletin_listing
Information and easy access to the information is crucial. The LAPD site should be improved and updated ASAP. Good thing we have the GS site!
November 23rd, 2009 at: 7:03 pm
The killer’s height is listed as 5′11-6′ on the America’s Most Wanted
site. Varying info confuses the public. I’m going with 6′.
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=60381
November 23rd, 2009 at: 8:25 pm
GatorALLin - That rap sheet for Bruce Allen is interesting. his mugshot certainly resembles the aged composite on this site. Also the given address on that rap-sheet is so very close to GS’s survivor’s abduction location. Also on looking at the address in Google maps there is a mustard(ish) colored house obscured by a hedge that would match the survivor’s description of the house that she said her attacker briefly stopped. However, I agree with P.I when he warns against stirring up a wasp’s nest. We have to be careful to avoid any sort of ‘vigilante mission’. The aged image is probably as accurate an interpretation as the younger image and we have to remember that both images are only educated guesses based on information collected in the investigation.
November 23rd, 2009 at: 11:17 pm
Admin- I did start with a map of every sex offender in the LA and picked the Zip code of the Cosmopolitan Church as ground zero as I figured this may be a location close to GS home (if he lives in the area and is a Sex Offender). I did notice his house was only a block away from her pick up spot and found this was a wow moment for me also. All we need now is Google street view with the pinto in the driveway . I was thinking the dump sites are Red Herrings and chosen to lead us away from where he may live. I looked at where John F. Thomas lived vs. his kill zone also to help as a guideline. I then looked also at sites other than the drop points (Surviving victim’s pick up point) and worked my way outward. I am guessing this Allan guy has had his DNA checked recently to eliminate him, but then again John Thomas was in this Same Sex offender list, just that JFT was 72 years old and they did not have his DNA in the system (same could be true for this guy at 59…who knows? Clearly a long shot) Had me wondering if Surviving Victim had ever sat down with a picture book of every person with a criminal record (not just sex offenders) that lives in this same zone…in a weekend she could at least eliminate 90%+ of them just on a visual scan. You KNOW the GS has a criminal record of some kind by now, even if he does not live here he is in the area enough to make some error. Then they could do some cool cross references of the remaining pile (I think the GS may have a passport and would guess 99% of the black males in the kill zone don’t). Anyone who every owned a Pinto …they may have those older DMV records still. A High School yearbook from the area with pictures would also be very interesting to review. I have ZERO faith that the cops have done their homework on this case..NONE!!! After listening to Detective Dennis Kilcoyne on various videos on the case). These cops are busy digging up the pastor’s body of the cosmopolitan Church for a DNA match, but can’t figure out to release a sketch of the killer to the public…WTF! Pinto is described as “Maddening Vague” as a clue by Dennis…WTF? Read a few of the stories on what they did with the rape kits that never were tested…then you really get pissed at them. The artist sketch was passed out at the time, but never shown to family members of the victims..WTF? Some lawyer will have a field day with the never ending list I can think of in just 30 sec.. but I digress. When I started searching the Sex Offender list it was shown alphabetically and so (Allen) comes up almost first and so he stuck out as the front runner match for me. I spent some time looking at the early JFT and then the actual mug shot..wow what a difference, but the similarities were sill there at age 72 http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/cgi/prosoma.dll?searchby=offender&id=1869408304683. I was wondering about the lips and the angle of the drawing for the nose as these made a difference (cops need to improve the consistency of these pictures, or take multiple angles). I noticed that if nothing else the pictures the Cops keep on file are pathetic at best (time for an upgrade!) On a side note: SEC football replay monitors are not in HD, and yet they signed a 3 billion dollar deal for the TV rights..guess that cops don’t bother to take high resolution pictures to post online for the public to ID sex offenders either. There are lots of missing pictures and I am asking WTF? (no dates listed of the date the picture was last taken, or older pictures to view, or dates of their crimes). I am sure with a few hours effort I can find mug shots list of LA and did up more pictures for the same kill zone area to widen this search. I work with computers all day long, so this just seems obvious. Also on the face match..I was thinking most guys with pock marks grow facial hair to hide it, not sure if GS would do that or not (he was clean cut back then, note the different looks for JFT). I have a brilliant friend who writes web crawler programs that collect info online and then build a DB (database) I could scan this looking just for the MO that we have on GS and get a nice set of pictures for the surviving victim to look at. If I could figure out a DMV listing for that time/area I bet I could come up with some really good hits. I would pay a lot to get a list of Pinto owners from 1988 with DL photos matching (actually started talking to http://www.fordpinto.com club members on this topic) and may post those emails if they prove helpful with pictures next. On a side note I would like to see a picture with the age progression drawing shown with more of an upward angle (making nostrils look more open) and bald and lips looking more aged and full to see if that helps match with the angle of the pictures and give one more possible sketch of the GS.
November 24th, 2009 at: 5:36 am
…so using google maps Street view on the street address for Mr. Allen above (1333 WEST 90TH PL, ca, 90044)I found myself looking at the garage and wondering if an orange pinto was just a few feet on the other side (the house lots look long and thin) with the yard poorly kept. I have no vigilante project in mind although the rights of a sex offender are not at the top of my list when hunting the GS. I did notice a Gutierrez Auto Repair shop on the corner, just a stones throw from this address and pictured that the GS might have had had had new a new interior installed a few different times over the years…I hear myself whispering.. “pretty fuckn’ thin” as I look one more time at the sketch and the Allen picture. I’m still betting the cops did check this DNA match already, but can you imagine if he was right under their nose this entire time…. just like JFT was? All I need is the bumper sticker on the Mercedes out front with faded roof paint to say “My other car is a Blue Dodge Van” or “my money goes to the Cosmopolitan Church”..LOL.
There is something really cool about that street view Google Maps tool..lets you feel like you can walk..no fly up and down the street and wave to the kids playing in some yards. Today I pictured myself passing out a photo copy of the Christine Pelisek’s GS story that broke the case with the new sketch artist drawings on top, the $500K reward notice and of course a color sketch of that pimped out pinto to every house on that street… except for one (stopping at that repair shop and passing out 3 extra copies, asking who was working here in 1987 on a custom pinto with that cool interior?). So for about 30 cents per copy and a 70 cent stamp your telling me I could mail a copy of this case and the new sketch to everyone on that street..? for about $100 I could reach out to 100 houses and take a wild chance someone else went to that same store where the surviving victim went and maybe where the GS shopped also 21 years ago? Or still does? So if we were to take donations through a website to make some things happen to catch the killer faster….oh nevermind.
November 24th, 2009 at: 7:46 am
2 more possible matches from the sex offender list of LA,CA (if you think the pockmarks are a critical clue)
http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/cgi/prosoma.dll?searchby=offender&id=1869503802050&lang=ENGLISH
or http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/cgi/prosoma.dll?searchby=offender&id=1869508200006
November 24th, 2009 at: 5:19 pm
GatorALLin: sadly, it looks like there’s not any genuine interest in this case from the public, the LAPD, or the media (except for a few flares now and then, like the Fox L.A. segment the other day. Seems like it’s just a few of us on this site who truly give a crap plus of course the families of the victims who will never find peace until the killer is found. I looked at the L.A.Times online edition: no mentioning of the colored drawing that has been released. Not sure if the L.A. Weekly will have anything on this this week. Also: So far no one here has commented on what I wrote: that the drawing that I was shown at the Weekly offices this year was a different drawing, black and white pencil or charcoal. There are too many unanswered questions in this strange case.
November 24th, 2009 at: 7:30 pm
Finally the L.A. Times posted a brief article online, incl. the newly released 1988 colored drawing. (Again: not the drawing I was shown this year at The L.A. Weekly - would love to have the LAPD to comment on that!).
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/11/la-detectives-step-up-search-for-grim-sleeper-serial-killer.html
November 24th, 2009 at: 9:12 pm
P.I. Thanks for posting that sketch link in your #11 comment. That picture is nice and bright..I felt I could see the pock marks clearly. Unless the original line drawing they showed you was just an early version of the current sketch, or taken from a 2nd suspect, I don’t know what to think? I did find a pencil sketch myself (using Google images) about 6 months ago, but I could not get confirmation it was the GS and did not take it seriously (It had a stocking hat on) and I did save a picture of it and would be happy to email a copy to you just to see if it is a match. So did you meet with Christine Pelisek at the LaWeekly to see the sketch? I did email her 2x about releasing the sketch, but never had a reply from her.
..On your LAPD link above in #4 that picture does not load and I tested from 3 different computers just to check (so they finally release it, but in a dead link…insert LAPD joke here).
November 24th, 2009 at: 10:09 pm
We have updated the composite image with a clearer version. Also we have decided to alter the presentation of our AGED version to show that it is NOT an LAPD release but one we have altered unofficially. Already there is a news site that has show both images without clarifying their origin. We (the website) don’t wish to cause confusion so we’ve updated the aged version with a clear label as to its origin.
November 25th, 2009 at: 12:33 am
[...] Unofficial AGED Version of “The Grim Sleeper” from TheGrimSleeper.com. [...]
November 25th, 2009 at: 4:29 am
Great work on the “updated” sketch..I do see the improvements. I like that it says http://www.thegrimsleeper.com on the image and hope it will bring more people to this website and help get the word out. I keep sending emails and making posts to news outlets to update their sites with both images (AMW, CNN, etc.) It was impressive to see the 21 year age progression image so quickly. I hope a pimped out pinto sketch is in the works next.
November 25th, 2009 at: 5:04 am
AMW just posted the LAPD sketch (they seem to have a lower resolution version of the sketch than posted here) check it out at http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=60381
November 25th, 2009 at: 6:46 am
..so did the LAPD release info that the GS is in his 20’s in 1988 (or should we belive the surviving victim’s “early 30’s”. I think LAPD also said Orange Ford pinto details now are green interior with tan seats, when we have several accounts from surviving victim on LaWeekly articles and AMW video detailing interior as all white, or white diamond tux seats.. I posted some possible corrections to the LaWeekly sketch artist drawings here: http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/crime/serial-killer-grim-sleeper-ske/ Lets see if Christine reads the posted comments and fixes any errors shown there…??
BTW..I did see 30+ postings of the sketch now…Only found 2 with both sketches.
December 17th, 2009 at: 11:11 pm
[...] I’m not altogether convinced that the two aged images actually resemble how the younger man would look 20 years later. The middle image bears no real resemblance to the young guy and the two older men in this trio look to be two different men entirely - instead of being two representations of the same guy. Even if I do say so myself… I prefer our attempt. [...]
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