Grim Sleeper in Montreal in ‘91?
Last weekend I was searching on Google for information pertaining to this case when I came across an archived newspaper article from March 1991. The article was from a Canadian newspaper in Montreal, Quebec. Article mentions a private outreach organization known as “Dans La Rue” which helps street youths in Montreal. Among the youths they help out are prostitutes and the article talks about a “bad trick list.” A bad trick list is simply a list of bad clients or customers i.e. “johns” who go to see prostitutes. One of the descriptions of the reported johns is this: “Orange Pinto (1975?), curly brown hair, small and thin, early 30s, wire-rim glasses, speaks English w/ accent, carries a loaded big gun, raped girls for 1 hour and robbed another girl.” Also, this organization, Dans La Rue, reportedly kept records of the physical descriptions of the men AND car license plate numbers. Can someone help me and let me know how LAPD or someone working on this case could get access to these records? Does anyone know if Dans La Rue will still have these records on file from as far back as 1991? From what we know, GS took a break from killing after 1988 and didn’t resurface until 2002. Is it possible that he left the Los Angeles area and went to other states and even countries like Canada? Also, the lone survivor of GS described him looking “geeky.” Wire-rim glasses are considered to make one geeky in some circles. I really think LAPD and the authorities should check out this group in Montreal called Dans La Rue.
Here is a link to the article:
18 Responses to “Grim Sleeper in Montreal in ‘91?”
April 1st, 2009 at: 10:43 pm
If you go to page 4 of the PDF it will take you to the article which mentions a person which sounds eerily like GS.
April 2nd, 2009 at: 12:37 am
Your site provides almost as much in-depth information as the LA Weekly and LA Times, which after reading CNN’s article on their website today is very much appreciated.
The months and weekdays of the victims’ deaths interest me because just at a cursory look, once might be able to tie these in the years they occured to Muslim or Islamic holidays and festivals. (Believe me, I am not being a religious racist here - was only looking for patterns in the chaos.) Since none of the data I’ve seen thus far estimates a time of death, one must look to the calendar prior to the date the victims were found. For example, the last victim (Janecia Peters) was found by a homeless man on Jan 1, 2007. The distinction is important to look ahead - and sure enough on Dec 31, 2006, the Islamic festival of Eid ul-Adha starts and ends on Jan 2, 2007. (The Eid ul-Adha is commonly called the Festival of Sacrifice commemorating the willingness of Ibrahim to sacrifice his son Ishmael as an act of obedience to God.)
I also noted your prior post speculating on the days of the week these victims may have been killed and the proximity to churches - I think that’s spot on. There may be an assumption on the part of the LA police this may be a “religious” person as a result. I agree with that - only in the realm of possibility, I don’t believe there’s anything that says that person has to be Christian.
April 2nd, 2009 at: 1:05 am
Good find, and I’m sure worth looking into.
Surprisingly no mention of race, nor what sort of accent he had.
Wonder how many other sex worker organizations around the nation may have a similar database, and if it would be worth contacting any that were in operation during the Grim Sleeper’s “absence”?
April 2nd, 2009 at: 1:46 am
It said in the article that this man spoke “English with an accent.” It could be coincidental because many people at one time drove Orange Pinto vehicles. However, there probably weren’t many who were also targeting prostitutes.
April 2nd, 2009 at: 3:08 am
It says around 1975 could he be from Montreal and frequently visited LA. Or moved to LA for a change. It also said in his 30’s but in LA the Killer was stated to started killing as early as 18.
April 2nd, 2009 at: 3:19 am
The description within the article is a very interesting possibility although the skin color wasn’t described. Curly “brown” hair doesn’t sound like a black male, but it could have been just the way the ‘trick’ was described. It wouldn’t be unlikely at all that GS had changed locations from CA to Canada.
April 5th, 2009 at: 12:37 am
IamDisturbed22 in comment #5:
I can’t recall the name of the serial killer but there was a white guy in Wisconsin, I think it was, who when finally caught had human body parts in his kitchen. He was actually a serial killer and was eating parts of his victims. He was later murdered in prison by another inmate.
The thing was: he ADMITTED as I recall that his first victim was when he was 17 years of age. He killed another neighborhood boy & the police never knew. It was assumed the neighbor boy had been killed by an adult from outside the area.
April 6th, 2009 at: 12:58 am
Gary, are you talking about Jeffrey Dahmer?
April 6th, 2009 at: 1:03 am
Also, I’ve been meaning to give Richard his props for a while now, but I think this is a FANTASTIC lead. The descriptions of the man and the car are too similar to be ignored, especially if you read the surviving victim’s description in the LA Weekly story. I hope the LAPD hears about this and follows up on it.
April 6th, 2009 at: 1:14 am
2 problems with this lead.
Can a shitbox pinto/gremlin/maverick make it from California to Montreal? …. Maybe.
Its pretty difficult for a non-native to get around in Quebec. If this guy really is the super loner type, why snobby fashion oriented, all white Montreal?
April 6th, 2009 at: 1:23 am
The paper with the numbers on it…”89″ is a year…the other numbers may be house addresses..just a “hunch”…Even people that are deemed “crazy” write down stuff that only makes sense to them…but it means or has no sense or logic in a “Normal” persons world…I hope they(LAPD) catch this sicko.Gee I wonder what would happen if we added up the numbers on that paper..would it reveal another clue??..>Just another hunch.
Zoie jean..Seattle, WA
April 6th, 2009 at: 2:31 am
White Montreal?……sorry, but there’s almost a quarter of a million black people living in the Montreal area. The #2 city in Canada after Toronto.
There is a HUGE Haitian ex-pat population in Montreal. Not only that, there are neighborhoods that go on for miles where he would not only blend in, he would disappear.
You’ve been reading too many bad books on Montreal, it’s probably one of the most conservative Catholic cities in North America. A huge cathedral every 15 blocks.
It’s got a bohemian side, but that’s hardly “all” there is in Montreal.
He’d fit right in mainly because a huge percentage of the black population of Montreal comes from “somewhere else”. Haiti, Africa…….everybody comes from somewhere else.
April 6th, 2009 at: 3:36 am
Random thoughts:
Biracial - maybe black and hispanic but allows him to take on very different ethnic looks. This also plays into his self hatred. Mother possibly a black prostitue.
Smart and attractive. Uses ‘geek’ look/car to mask his side killing.
Church going but may be more formally religiously educated than one would think. Time away could be higher education, armed services, mission trip or true repentence.
AIDS was not a household disease in 1988, so his placing that on vic 1 (as far as we know) could mean strong ties to gay community since it was still thought more of a gay disease (and in his mind God’s wrath)?
April 6th, 2009 at: 4:40 am
Comment # 8 by Kerry: Yes, I couldn’t think of Jeffery Dahmer’s name.
Comment # 10 by Ray: So, er, Ray. You sound like some sort of elitist racist as you describe “all white Montreal.” Thats their business, not yours. If the area happens to be “all white,” why do you care? Would it make a difference to you if it was “all black” or “all Asian?” Only “all white” areas deserve to be bashed? Waaaaaaay to trendy, Ray.
And “snobby?” A comment like that makes you sound as if you have an inferiority complex.
April 8th, 2009 at: 4:34 am
Good detective work. I agree, the description offered by that organization is eerily similar to the lone survivor’s description of her attacker.
I watched the video of America’s Most Wanted, the episode where John Walsh travels to St. Thomas to try to help a friend solve the murder of his brother. And I was struck by what the friend (a former FBI agent) said, which is that those who kill on St. Thomas usually flee to the states, to the larger cities, to try to disappear in NY, Miami, and he may even have mentioned Montreal. I don’t recall.
Maybe the perp committed crimes in St. Thomas or St. Croix, fled to Montreal, committed more crimes, them eventually moved to LA, then eventually back to Montreal. Maybe he moves to different cities when he feels the risk of being found out is escalating. The lone survivor gave us a few clues. He was black and spoke English with an accent. If he’s Haitian or from other Caribbean islands, he would have a noticeable accent. It should be easy enough for the survivor to listen to recordings of native speakers to determine whether he is from the Caribbean.
April 8th, 2009 at: 4:39 am
Meant to say this in my other post, but did not, which is that the police should definitely follow-up with this organization and try to find out all they can. Did they write down the license plate number of the Ford Pinto? Also, someone earlier mentioned that this happened in 1975. I believe their notes mentioning 1975, with a question mark after it, had to do with their guess as to the year of the Pinto, not the time of the ‘bad trick’s’ visit.
April 8th, 2009 at: 2:17 pm
I agree, pr, the 1975 date is the approximate age of the car.
April 15th, 2009 at: 5:39 pm
I wanted to give you all an update on what’s going on. First, I received an e-mail from the LAPD about the newspaper article. A detective is investigating it and will be keeping in touch with me. Second, I also received a response from Montreal and unfortunately they do not archive any records prior to 1995.
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