Calling all Grim Sleeper ‘arm-chair investigators’!
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11 Responses to “Calling all Grim Sleeper ‘arm-chair investigators’!”
April 1st, 2009 at: 8:46 pm
I wanted to bring up a point about the blue, and white Van that matches the description of the anonymous caller. How did they not push into looking more into that church? That van WAS used because how did the caller identify the exact same description/license plate matching the van!. Even if it’s not the grim sleeper, a murder took place, and someone need’s to be arrested for the murder of that woman. Church members said the van had only been used for church activity, ok so what time was it used? Where was it taken? Who was driving? Is there a log book of who checked it out? All these questions should of been asked to the church members who attend that church. It needs to be pressed again, maybe a search warrant needs to be issued to get some answers answered. Barbara ware, was murdered clearly, she needs justice done even if the Grim Sleeper did not kill her. Another question I thought 911 could locate where a call was made from! what about the anonymous caller? does records show where his call was made from? Even if he can’t identified, the man clearly saw that van and gave a plate number to the van by that church.
April 2nd, 2009 at: 12:13 am
Also, why wasn’t the call traced? This was 1987….they had the technology to trace a call back then. They did it in the 1970s with the BTK case. This guy was ont he phone for a decent amount of time, I am sure they could have at least figured out WHERE the call came from.
April 2nd, 2009 at: 12:35 am
There were a number of people at the church and it was admitted that the van had been used for a church activity. Police finger-printed the van. Evidently, no prints or DNA of value were found. The caller waited 30 minutes, had a clear description of the van and license plate, as well as knowing the exact address of the body. He knew what the body was covered with, etc. It only stands to reason that all or most of your questions WERE asked. If we examine the “paths of least resistance” on Google maps, we find that Normandie Ave. was a place of intersection for the Wade murder, Alicia Alexander, and Lachrica Jefferson. It seems reasonable that the church van was just a red herring and the caller was the GS. He sure seemed calm and amused at the idea of giving his identity.
April 2nd, 2009 at: 4:59 am
Comment #2,DarkWingBird:
The sole survivor victim described the killer as a male in his late 20’s or early 30’s. Does the voice of the caller sound any less than late 40’s or early 50’s? I don’t think so.
What you did say that sounded very likely is that the caller walked the path of least resistance to the nearest pay phone either because poverty prevented him from having his own phone (I actually met a woman in this category years ago) …… or because he didn’t want to be involved and wanted to avoid a phone trace by the LAPD.
That said, using an OLD map of the era and not one of today, figure that the caller rented or owned a house within a 100 yards of the body dump location. Then, look at the nearest major intersections where a payphone was likely located. Payphones don’t exist any longer where they once were….. but they used to be at nearly every major intersection in gas station or retail center.
By looking at the nearest intersection using an OLD map, you’ll probably see where the caller phoned the LAPD.
I don’t know that would help matters much.
In the case of the unsolved Zodiac murders (San Francisco Bay Area) of the 1960’s, the killer phoned the police to “report” his killings. The police actually located the pay phone used in that call but it didn’t help much in the investigation. It did give them his location at a specific time, though.
April 2nd, 2009 at: 5:05 am
Final thought:
In the case of the now solved BTK murders in Kansas, the killer was eventually discovered to be a member of a Lutheran Church. He also held a steady job.
Its unfortunate that the LAPD failed to interview and document each and every member of the Church group that owned the van.
But, even though the caller identified the van as the suspect vehicle, I’ve not seen anything that CONFIRMED it was used by the killer. The motor was still warm as the LAPD found it…… but did the killer actually use it or was it merely a Church member? If the van was NOT used by the killer, then the Church group might not have been interviewed for that reason. In that case, the caller gave correct information as to the body location…… but false information for the use of the van which would then make the caller a suspect.
April 2nd, 2009 at: 12:50 pm
The church members did confirm that the van was used that night, so it is unclear whether the caller was sincere or a ruse. Looking at everything, the van really doesn’t make sense or fit in with anything else, except for the “coincidence” of many bodies being dumped near churches. I don’t know the area - where there a lot of churches in that neighborhood? If there are, then it would be just a coincidence as they would be all over the place, regardless of where the bodies were being dumped.
Also, knowing the exact address where Barbara Ware’s body was located would have been difficult for the grim sleeper to discern unless he knew the area. He drove halfway down the alley and dumped the body - at night - how could he possibly know the address of the back of the house where he dumped? (unless there are house numbers in the alley). That leads me to believe the caller lived right there - knowing the address number, and also having opportunity to witness most of the crime. I don’t think it’s significant that he couldn’t identify the driver - at night, in the dark, with the perpetrator likely a black man, it is not surprising the caller could not identify the guy beyond saying it was a man. I also don’t think it suspicious that the caller did not want to give his name - he would immediately become the main suspect in the case if he did (and possibly target of the killer as a witness to the crime). I remember the Rodney King riots - back then blacks in South LA and the LAPD weren’t necessarily buddies.
But the 911 caller and van really confuses things, although regardless whether the caller was the grim sleeper or concerned citizen, it does add facts to the case. Obviously, answering the question who was the caller (grim sleeper of citizen) would help discern how these facts are useful.
April 2nd, 2009 at: 6:50 pm
If the caller WERE the killer, it would have been easy for him to decide upon a dumping place(s) in advance of the kill and even to premeditate the idea of calling in the “tip.” He could have noted the exact address before the kill so that when he called he would already have the information.
So, my guess is that the caller was either a resident who looked over the fence when he heard the van drive to a stop, a homeless guy sleeping/boozing in some nitch in the alley, or the killer himself.
You’re right about the caller being worried about getting pulled into a murder even if he didn’t know it was a serial murder case and thus not wanting to ID himself. I’ve done that myself. You’re also right that at night, in a dark alley, that it would be hard to say much about the killer particularly if you were focused on what he was doing i.e. dragging a body. You’d be looking more at the body than the killer.
I’ve also noticed that in poverty areas, there ARE a lot of churches. (I’ve always suspected it was one way that some people use to be self employed, so to speak. “Create” a church & make yourself the pastor & ask for tithe money). So, it might be that the bodies just happened to have churches all around them because poverty areas just have a lot of small “churches.”
But the observation by someone on this site that the bodies are all around that one church in particular is interesting.
The details given about the members of the Church where the van was located, though, seems to be missing a lot of the story. From what I’ve read here, the van was fingerprinted & vacuumed & thats it. A few, but not all, of the church members were interviewed. I’m not sure if the LAPD withheld some info on this aspect of the story or if its just genuinely scarce on details. Without more info, the Church-van-tipster aspect doesn’t provide much help in discerning a pattern.
April 3rd, 2009 at: 5:52 am
Maura, in comment # 2, : Modern technology might be able to trace a call in seconds as opposed to what they were able to do 20 years back, but the phone call tipster only spoke for maybe 60 seconds. Back then, even though they could trace a call, I don’t think they could do it in less than several minutes. I remember speaking to a phone company employee about that long ago and he explained to me the steps that were required for them to do that…. it wasn’t something that was done easily. And, the cops had to ask the phone company to do that…. so the tipster was off the phone even before the dispatcher even had a chance to request that action by the phone company.
April 4th, 2009 at: 3:51 am
BillMill in Comment # 6:
I personally think the caller was a resident because his voice was much older than the sole survivor described the killer as being. But maybe the survivor was wrong in her guess of the killer’s age…. or maybe the caller simply sounded older than he really was.
The caller’s voice sounded to me as if he were around 50 years old. Given that its been 20 years since he phoned, I’d bet he has died by now.
But the odd thing about the caller is that he didn’t seem stressed at all given that he witnessed (supposedly) a murder victim being dumped. He even laughed a little but not in a psychotic manner. But then again, the recorded phone call by the Zodiac killer to the police in the East San Francisco Bay showed that a serial killer can speak shortly after his crime without stress.
The phone caller is definitely a curiosity.
April 4th, 2009 at: 6:14 am
PEOPLE ARE DE-SENSITIZED AS TO WHAT TO FEEL WHEN SEEING CERTAIN THINGS(dead bodies,shootings,people getting beaten). THE CALLER HAD PROBABLY WALKED UP AFTER SEEING THE VAN AND NOTICED THE WOMANS LEGS. THAT COSMOPOLITAN CHURCH IS WERE DETECTIVES ARE FOCUSING IN ON (20 YEARS TOO LATE). WHAT IF THE CHURCH HAD ONE OF THOSE MAGNET KEY HOLDERS UNDER THE WHEEL WELL OF THE VAN? IN THE 80′S L.A. HAD WAY TOO MUCH CRIME.
WHO PARKS A VAN OVER A CURB? LOOKS LIKE A WEIRD HURRIED PARKING JOB.
April 4th, 2009 at: 3:16 pm
I am trying to find information on the late Deputy Rickey Ross. Any information on him or next of kin would be appreciated. Please write to t_alardin at yahoo.com.
Thank you
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