Within the shadows of a church
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We’ve noticed something while researching The Grim Sleeper’s victim discovery locations which is most probably just a quirk or coincidence. However, we feel that for the record, it’s worth offering up the premise for public scrutiny as well as cementing the fact that this connection (if any) was first bought to public attention here at thegrimsleeper.com .
While viewing TGS victim discovery locations we’ve noticed that all the locations without exception feature a church (or worshiping venue) within very close proximity. In some cases this distance is so small that in at least two instances the addresses are actually shared with a church.
We’ll take them one at a time and use Google Maps as a visual aid.
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Victim 1, Debra Jackson. left in an alley in the West Gage Avenue South Vermont Avenue (block 1000).
Church: Iglesia Unidos En La Roca situated 0.1 mile from find location?
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Victim 2, Henrietta Wright was left in an alley at block 2500 of West Vernon Avenue.
Church: Vlb Fellowship Center 2514 W Vernon Ave, situated 100ft from find location
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Victim 3, Thomas Steele. Found at the junction of 71st Street and Halldale Avenue.
Church: Angelic Institutional Christian Fellowship, situated 0.1 mile from find location
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Victim 4, Barbara Ware. Found in an alley in the 1300 block of East 56th Street
Church: The First Missionary Baptist Church, situated 300ft from find location
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Victim 5, Bernita Sparks. Found in an alley in the 9400 block of South Western Avenue.
Church: 23rd Church of Christ Science, situated on the EXACT spot of the find location
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Victim 6, Mary Lowe. Found in bushes at near block 8900 of Western Avenue.
Church: New Creation Christian Faith?, situated across the street to the find location (90ft)
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Victim 7, Lachrica Jefferson. Found in an alley at 2000 block of West 102nd Street in Lennox.
Church: Eternal Promise Baptist Church, situated 0.1 mile from find location
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Victim 8, Alicia Alexander. Found at 1700 block of West 43rd Street & Western Avenue
Church: Ray of Light Missionary Baptist Church, situated 200ft from find location
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Victim 9, Princess Berthomieux. Found in the 8100 block of South Van Ness Avenue in Inglewood.
Church: Celestrial Church of Christ, situated 120ft from the find location
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Victim 10, Valerie McCorvey. Found between 108th & 109th Streets near Denver Avenue *
Church: Garden of Peace Baptist Church?, situated 0.2 miles from the find location
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Victim 11, Janecia Peters. Found near 9500 Western Avenue
Church: Church of the Living God-CWFF, situated NEXT door to the find location
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As can be seen from the details above, the proximity of church establishments to victim discovery locations is remarkable. However certain caveats must be mentioned. Firstly we only have second and third hand information as to the locations of each find site so exact locations may blow this theory right out of the water. Also there are hundreds (maybe even thousands) of ‘faith’ establishments in the LA area and the likelihood of being within a few hundred yards of a church or other religious location is quite high. Having said that we conducted a few ‘blind’ tests - random google address searches within the south LA area - and found that our results were not as ’spectacular’ as the actual matches seen above.
We reiterate that the theory that TGS has purposefully chosen ‘dump’ locations close to places of faith is just that, a theory. However the fact that each victim was discovered within the shadows of a church is maybe a statistic that’s hard to ignore. Especially as it seems each church-to-discovery location never exceeds 300 feet. We should like to get a statistician to crunch some figures.
A final comment we thought was also worth mentioning, more for the chill that it may provide than anything else. Take a look at the last map for victim 11. Notice that the victim discovery location is right between TWO churches. Notice also the name of the church marked ‘D’. Is this a message from the killer that he is indeed trying to ‘clean up the streets’?
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* Some reports have named this as Denker Ave which also has 108th & 109th street intersections. Therefore this address may need verifying
13 Responses to “Within the shadows of a church”
January 3rd, 2009 at: 8:37 am
It’s interesting that 4 of them are listed on Western/South Western Avenue.
February 25th, 2009 at: 11:21 pm
Have the cops thought about the possibility that the killer might be commenting on his own crimes and the investigation….somewhere on a ‘comments section’ on a blog?
He committed most of the known murders 20 years ago, before the wide-spread phenom of blogs- which have exploded in popularity. If he thinks he’s smarter than the Cops, he might be relishing that by trashing them….perhaps letting something slip in the process. But thinking back to the arrogance of the Zodiac killer, this ‘newer’ killer may have the same high self-opinion, which he may feel compelled to strut somewhere in a cloaked manner. What more natural way than the latest version of “letters to the editor”?
Just a thought- I realize the Cops don’t have “extra hours” to start checking out the thousands of blogs which would mention these horrific murders.
February 26th, 2009 at: 8:16 pm
I JUST CAME ACROSS THIS SITE AND FROM WHAT I HAVE READ THIS KILLER
MAYBE A CHURCH GOER MAYBE HE CLEANS CHURCHES HE IS VERY FAMILER WITH THE CHURCHES I DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THESE GIRLS BUT IF THEY ARE GIRLS OF THE NIGHT OR DRUG ADDICTS OR FOR THE 14YR OLD HE PROBABLY APPROACHES THEM WITH THE IDEA HE IS GOING TO HELP THEM HE EVIDENTLY LOOKS LIKE A NICE PERSON AND MAY TELL THEM HE IS ASSOC WITH THE CHURCH TO LURE THEM HE HATES THESE GIRLS HE PROBABLY HATED HIS MOTHER WHO WAS PROBABLY VERY DOMINEERING TO HIM CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY THIS UNUSUAL COLOR CAR COULD NOT BE FOUND MAYBE HE PAINTED IT HE IS A DO GOODER OR HE THINKS HE IS CHECK OUT PEOPLE ASSOC WITH THE CHURCH HE COULD BE A PERSON LIKE THE BTK KILLER HE IS PROBABLY KNOWN IN THE COMMUNITY DEFINATLY KNOWS THE AREA WELL HE IS A LOCAL PERSON HE PREYS ON PEOPLE THAT HAVE PROBLEMS HE IS ALSO VERY MUCH A COWARD AND A MAMA’S BOY EVEN THO HE HATES OR HATED HIS MOTHER HE THINKS HE IS DOING HIS COMMUNITY A BIG FAVOR BY TAKING THEIR LIVES HE PROBABLY HAS MULTIPLE PERSONALITIES ALSO.
February 26th, 2009 at: 9:44 pm
Has any one check AA meeting groups, since all the vic’s were found near a church.
February 27th, 2009 at: 3:00 am
Ok, this is really grasping at straws..you can’t throw a stone in LA and not hit a church, so it would be more telling if the sites were NOT near a church. The killer would have to make a concerted effort to stay far away from churches, whereas if he randomly dumps bodies, they are all bound to be somewhat close to some kind of church.
February 27th, 2009 at: 3:05 am
It is also interesting that most of the attacks occurred in an alley. This guy seems to like alleys.
February 28th, 2009 at: 6:34 am
when this first broke i came up with my own profile (being a serial killer buff and all) and the thing that i came as close to being sure of as possible is that he’s a religious man. he stopped killing due to an internal conflict of faith. he felt he was doing the lord’s work and cleaning up the streets but when the surviving victim humanized herself he couldn’t use that rationalization. often in lower income communities church and religion play a very important role. i believe he came from a solid religious family and it was doubtful they would get a dna hit. when i learned about the church van connection yesterday i was very intrigued that perhaps i was on the right track.
for some reason i’m convinced that he worked either in shipping (maybe san pedro) or at lax. i should have kept better notes when i researched because i can’t remember why i am convinced of this! i think he’s still alive and living in the area.
March 1st, 2009 at: 7:13 am
On the map, Church of the Living God is NOT next to the drop site, if the drop site is the green arrow (reason applied). “Ambassador to Christ” is D, which is chilling (Son of Sam correlation). The drop site appears closer to C, Community Faith Christian Church, though. Find myself wondering if the killer rapes/assaults the victim, shoots her afterwards (the survivor was raped, then shot), dumps the body, and THEN immediately goes into a church, or has to at least go near to a church for “absolution” of sorts? If so, the culmunation of the act is being in or near the church, not the crime per se, and that would change the scenario (and perhaps profile) significantly. It might also open the possibility of finding “witnesses” who might remember something?
March 13th, 2009 at: 4:30 am
There’s no need to nationalize this killer. He’s most likely an impotent, little man with very few reasons to live. Who cares? By now he’s injured or dying and needs the help of nurses to bathe himself. Why waste our time worrying about what such a loser might do next? The victims will get their justice. He’ll get his.
March 25th, 2009 at: 10:40 pm
[...] This first one mentions the ‘… coincidence that the killer left many of the bodies near churches…’ One wonders where they hit upon that fact! [...]
April 2nd, 2009 at: 3:34 am
Interesting observation on location of body dumping & location of church establishments.
Before I put much effort into that observation, though, I’d have to see an OLD MAP of the area and not one of today. I’m assuming that the churches located by the poster were taken from a current map rather than a map of the exact time frame when a body was found.
April 2nd, 2009 at: 3:43 am
C J : I think you meant to say that the killer was being “sensationalized” rather than “nationalized.” In any case, the killer is estimated to be in his 40’s or 50’s.
Now, take a look at any person male or female in that age bracket and tell us that they couldn’t talk you into a car, and shoot you. They can shoot a gun in that age bracket very easily AND they’re old enough to be more clever in their behavior due to life experience.
Thus, the killer needs to be found because he EASILY can still be killing for another 10 or 20 years. You are correct, though, that the killer wouldn’t be anyone to be noticed were it not for the fact that he is a killer. Serial killers have a reputation of being ‘average looking’ and ‘average in behavior.’ They don’t stand out. And few if any are successful in life. They’re just average people…. with a psychotic desire to kill.
June 11th, 2009 at: 3:33 am
Yes, it’s entirely within the realm of possibility that TGS may be commenting on his motives for committing these horrible crimes (the AIDS note on victim #7 and the fact that practically EVERY victim’s body was dropped so close to a church) but there are hundreds (if not thousands) of churches and other religious/faith establishments in South L.A.–so we can’t really jump to conclusions. It really wouldn’t surprise me if TGS turns out to have a split (or double) personality, is active in his church (or even holds an important position there), appears friendly and/or acts “normal” in everyday life and his family or others who know him have no idea as to his “dark” side. Wether or not TGS was a member of or otherwise associated with the (now-defunct) Cosmopolitan Chuch is debatable but the LAPD should have thoroughly questioned everyone who was there on the night of Barbara Ware’s murder–especially since the anonymous caller was able to get the Dodge van’s licence plate number correctly.
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